Genius makes rattling noise

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pirusek
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Genius makes rattling noise

Post by pirusek » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:29 pm

Hi, my Genius makes loud rattling noise. The harder the wheel is pushed to the roller - the louder it gets.
Link to video: https://youtu.be/BQ2kiBEQqAo
Have you got any ideas what might be the problem? It is out of warranty period unfortunately :-/
Thanks for your help in advance :-)

mcorn
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Re: Genius makes rattling noise

Post by mcorn » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:31 am

The stainless steel sleeve that covers the urethane roller may have loosen. This is a very common problem with many Tacx trainers. The urethane shrinks and the urethane nubs that keep the sleeve in place may fall out. When this gets really bad, the sleeve will get quite loose. There is a very long thread about using epoxy to fix the problem. Many variations on the theme, but it seems to work for many who have tried it, including me:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7691

You should try to confirm this is the problem and that something else is not rubbing inside.

Tacx brakes are not very user serviceable. About the only major part that is replacement is the electronic control unit.

pirusek
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Re: Genius makes rattling noise

Post by pirusek » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:19 pm

The sleeve seems to be fine... It feels like a problem with barring.
Is there any chance that it is caused by a wrong set-up, calibration or software issue?

mcorn
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Re: Genius makes rattling noise

Post by mcorn » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:27 pm

pirusek wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:19 pm
The sleeve seems to be fine... It feels like a problem with barring.
Is there any chance that it is caused by a wrong set-up, calibration or software issue?
I am pretty sure it would not be caused by any of those things and it does not sound to me like a worn bearing problem. (By the way, the bearings are not serviceable.)

Does it get any quieter as you ride and as the unit warms up? That is what often happens when the sleeve is getting loose.

Genius_user
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Re: Genius makes rattling noise

Post by Genius_user » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:12 am

I had similar problem. Disassembled the brake and found this:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-1kd9 ... wsX9Q7bw6Q
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1e-cb6 ... ZPqW1HoTIZ

Seems that the plasticmaterial covering the internals in the motor is cracking and is rubbing against the electromagnets around it.

I dont know how important this plastic cover is or if you just can remove it.
Last edited by Genius_user on Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Tacx Genius smart multiplayer

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Alex Masalovich
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Re: Genius makes rattling noise

Post by Alex Masalovich » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:48 am

Genius_user wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:12 am
I dont know how important this plastic cover is or if you just can remove it.
Such an experiment only you can.
In general, when a rotor is destroyed, this Bearing block T2021.50 should be changed:
https://tacx.com/spare-parts/genius-smart/
Тренируйтесь много, отдыхайте ещё больше!

Genius_user
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Re: Genius makes rattling noise

Post by Genius_user » Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:06 pm

Alex Masalovich wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:48 am
Genius_user wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:12 am
I dont know how important this plastic cover is or if you just can remove it.
Such an experiment only you can.
In general, when a rotor is destroyed, this Bearing block T2021.50 should be changed:
https://tacx.com/spare-parts/genius-smart/
Probably this is caused by heat and age and function as an isolation between rotor and magnets.
Maybe someone with electrical competence can say if this is important. The Bearing block is an expensive part so it would be nice to avoid this sparepart.
Tacx Genius smart multiplayer

mcorn
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Re: Genius makes rattling noise

Post by mcorn » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:27 pm

I believe it is a covering over a large fixed magnet, but I am not 100% sure. If big chunks break off they could easily damage the windings as they would get jammed in the narrow space between the rotor and windings. I can also see that small pieces coming off could create bad noises. I'm not sure what the function of the plastic is. I disassembled a Genius a number of years ago and do not recall seeing it. It may be there to protect the windings during assembly. The design may have changed since I took apart my older non-smart Genius.

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Alex Masalovich
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Re: Genius makes rattling noise

Post by Alex Masalovich » Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:08 pm

There are very strong magnets:

Image

Photo for Bushido from here:
http://athletictechreview.com/2017/03/0 ... the-build/

Both Bushido and Genius have four neodymium magnets each:
https://tacx.com/product/genius-smart/
https://tacx.com/product/bushido-smart/
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Alex Masalovich
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Re: Genius makes rattling noise

Post by Alex Masalovich » Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:19 pm

Corrosion problems

Sintered Nd2Fe14B tends to be vulnerable to corrosion, especially along grain boundaries of a sintered magnet. This type of corrosion can cause serious deterioration, including crumbling of a magnet into a powder of small magnetic particles, or spalling of a surface layer.

This vulnerability is addressed in many commercial products by adding a protective coating to prevent exposure to the atmosphere. Nickel plating or two-layered copper-nickel plating are the standard methods, although plating with other metals, or polymer and lacquer protective coatings are also in use.

These neodymium magnets corroded severely after 5 months of weather exposure:

Image

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neodymium_magnet
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mcorn
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Re: Genius makes rattling noise

Post by mcorn » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:17 pm

Good research, as always, Alex. Yes, they are probably sintered magnets. As I recall on the Genius I took apart, the magnet was grey in color - probably a lacquer or polymer coating. So, I assume Tacx has updated the protective coating, but it may not be a real improvement. So, I think we need to add this to the list of things that can cause strange noises, which is not limited to the loose stainless sleeve on the urethane roller. My guess is this crumbling plastic is what some users have thought was a failing bearing.

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