TDA does not export elevation data

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Re: TDA does not export elevation data

Post by Tacx Video Production » Thu May 03, 2018 9:18 pm

lnebel wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 2:13 pm
Ah, I see, that answer explains everything. We will not get good elevation data for our TDA rides on other platforms :?
Actually, it was Strava that just changed their system to add Landsat data to files that have no data today & not Tacx. Its possible tacx will export something higher quality then this at some point. We use now inclinometer data for the grades & filming at low speeds on Bertha we are getting I think freaking good data now & thats the profile data you see in TDA. It should be grade perfect 90% of the time.

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Re: TDA does not export elevation data

Post by lnebel » Fri May 04, 2018 9:47 am

mcorn wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 8:03 pm
This will probably not be a popular comment for some, but I am not entirely sure why there should be a preoccupation over this issue. This is, afterall, just a trainer. The inherent inaccuracy and variability of all of these systems already overshadows these other issues. As a result, wanting a sense of laboratory precision about using this equipment is more of an illusion. Unless you really believe that winning the next TDF depends on this, it makes more sense to me to relax a little and try to enjoy yourself. For those who are intensely competitive, the truth will come out on the road and will not be affected very much by how carefully your record, track and analyze your indoor training results. People don't like to hear it, but a lot of athletic performance is determined by genetics and age.
Ooh, I certainly enjoy training on my Tacx Neo. I am just an aging amateur, and I am certainly not trying to win the TDF :) I just want my data to look nice and somewhat realistic on platforms like Strava and Endomondo. Grades going from minus to plus 50% does not look nice, not to mention the statistics for elevation gain going crazy. Although Tacx Cloud is an okay environment, the online social aspect of home training is on other platforms.

And, I will not mention any names here, but at least one compeditor actually exports the edited elevation with perfect grades. I have tested a variety of software this winter. TDA is the winner - except in exporting elevations :wink:

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Re: TDA does not export elevation data

Post by Tacx Video Production » Sat May 05, 2018 9:59 am

Image

here is a good example of landsat data in Strava, Im fairly sure tacx will eventually export some filtered alt data from the Tacx cloud as Im fairly sure Tacx support get a fair number of Landsat related questions ;-)

The strange peaks are caused by our route going through tunnels which the Satelite radar information called Landsat can not see, obviously the data inside the software you see while riding above is displaying the accurate alt/slope data of the actual road & this is also exported to the Tacx cloud.

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Re: TDA does not export elevation data

Post by mcorn » Sat May 05, 2018 5:32 pm

lnebel wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 9:47 am
I just want my data to look nice and somewhat realistic on platforms like Strava and Endomondo. Grades going from minus to plus 50% does not look nice, not to mention the statistics for elevation gain going crazy. Although Tacx Cloud is an okay environment, the online social aspect of home training is on other platforms.
And the reason that is important for the data to "look nice" is?

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Re: TDA does not export elevation data

Post by Tacx Video Production » Sat May 05, 2018 6:36 pm

Same reason that other things that look nice are made to look nice....it’s nicer!

No I know some customers like to log the virtual meters climbed. If the profile looked nice then the byproduct is the meters climbed would be more accurate. Obviously, it’s not for us to say if that’s important. If you don’t use Strava then it would be tough to understand if this is important or not. But I know its something that does generate questions that I answer fairly often so obviously would be costing Tacx support time so there is another reason to make the profiles look a bit nicer. We can do a little filtering to make sure the data can not be used to make bootleg RLVs....although TDA is now so cheap I can not imagine anyone being cheapskate enough to bother.

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Re: TDA does not export elevation data

Post by mcorn » Sat May 05, 2018 7:21 pm

There is a word for accuracy: accuracy (not looking nice). But if you filter or average, it may or may not be accurate.

The only reason I raised the question of looking nice is sometimes we chase around things that in the end don't really matter very much (I am just as guilty as anyone else, but sometimes it helps me to ask the question whether I am making a fuss about something that in the end does not make any difference).

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Re: TDA does not export elevation data

Post by Tacx Video Production » Sat May 05, 2018 7:45 pm

mcorn wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 7:21 pm
There is a word for accuracy: accuracy (not looking nice). But if you filter or average, it may or may not be accurate.

The only reason I raised the question of looking nice is sometimes we chase around things that in the end don't really matter very much (I am just as guilty as anyone else, but sometimes it helps me to ask the question whether I am making a fuss about something that in the end does not make any difference).
Well I think in this case its both, if you look at the example of Lago d'Iseo above I posted you can clearly see a rather ugly looking profile from Strava that obviously has no connection to what was actually done as it displays the mountains above the tunnels.. Now most customers probably do not care about the accuracy of the meters climbed but the profile just looks a bit silly. The whole point of Strava is to see share & log the rides you have done, if strava is displaying our competitions data properly then we should also. We can filter the data in such a way that the meters climbed will be quite close to the Tacx cloud.

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Re: TDA does not export elevation data

Post by thebigoneinfront » Sun May 06, 2018 9:43 am

Tacx Video Production wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 7:45 pm
The whole point of Strava is to see share & log the rides you have done,
I beg to disagree here. I think the whole point of Strava is to compete, both in real life and virtually. Strava well recognised that it‘s important to compete on equal footing and therefore keep real life and virtual rides well apart. If the data look silly, it‘s still competing on silly-looking equal footing. I admit that I certainly wouldn’t frown upon getting nice-looking data, but personally I‘d rather have Tacx work on ather aspects of TDA/Cloud. (Export to Garmin Connect, for one - it‘s so much easier to share with other training data programs from Connect than from Strava. :D)

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Re: TDA does not export elevation data

Post by Tacx Video Production » Sun May 06, 2018 10:38 am

thebigoneinfront wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 9:43 am
Tacx Video Production wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 7:45 pm
The whole point of Strava is to see share & log the rides you have done,
I beg to disagree here. I think the whole point of Strava is to compete, both in real life and virtually. Strava well recognised that it‘s important to compete on equal footing and therefore keep real life and virtual rides well apart. If the data look silly, it‘s still competing on silly-looking equal footing. I admit that I certainly wouldn’t frown upon getting nice-looking data, but personally I‘d rather have Tacx work on ather aspects of TDA/Cloud. (Export to Garmin Connect, for one - it‘s so much easier to share with other training data programs from Connect than from Strava. :D)
Maybe for some but I do not know anyone personally in my group of friends that uses Strava to compete but this could be because those I personally know all raced outside in actual races or are at my level of fitness. I have 1 KOM on a local MTB track that I had to risk my life & swarms of rabbits to nail but this is just being really freaking silly. For me Strava is more like a kind of sport based Facebook, you are just posting where you have cycled & sharing photos of locations you may have passed. I like to follow riders that love to take photos so i can see what the roads are like not just for filming but also out of curiosity to see how our sport is experienced in other locations.

Im unsure how anyone could actually do competition on strava against everyone, if you are strong enough to win any meaningful KOMs then you would normally hold either a Pro or 1st cat licence. In the Virtual world then Tacx share the results of most well known locations with Bkool Kinomaps etc their data for the climbs & roads is often extremely poor, Ive seen riders doing 600watts for over an hour... Its all meaningless unless you compete against your friends or your past times..

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Re: TDA does not export elevation data

Post by thebigoneinfront » Sun May 06, 2018 3:25 pm

I think Strava tries to become something like a sports-centered FB. Maybe you‘re ahead of time in mainly using it that way, or I‘m behind time :D

One more point, though. If dfferent trainer programs report different altitude/ascent data to Strava for the same GPS paths, virtual competition will get skewed. Guess Strava Support will receive some fire then...

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Re: TDA does not export elevation data

Post by Tacx Video Production » Mon May 07, 2018 8:25 am

thebigoneinfront wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 3:25 pm
I think Strava tries to become something like a sports-centered FB. Maybe you‘re ahead of time in mainly using it that way, or I‘m behind time :D

One more point, though. If dfferent trainer programs report different altitude/ascent data to Strava for the same GPS paths, virtual competition will get skewed. Guess Strava Support will receive some fire then...
I do not think Strava really would take serious anyone complaining about virtual KOM times, I think they would be right to ignore it. As long as Tacx software pumps out the most accurate times & gives you the most accurate experience of whatever road your riding..From that point on you can cheat, add a electric motor...flatten the hills , give yourself masses of extra watts.. It does not matter. It would be nice if it was possible to have a validated system for the riders that do care.. Maybe a separate Strava club for riders that want a valid time & to compete against others that want the same.. Then you can simply check out the results from that club.

For example for the new 'Tacx Desktop Application Club' here are the results for the top 1km of the Galibier
Image
Your then filtering out most of the dubious times but if you make a club of riders that plan to keep things accurate then you could compete ;-)

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Re: TDA does not export elevation data

Post by Tacx Video Production » Mon May 07, 2018 8:33 am

Tacx could take this to another level inside the Tacx cloud before you open Strava, but the whole social part of the plan Tacx have are a complete mystery to me.

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Re: TDA does not export elevation data

Post by thebigoneinfront » Mon May 07, 2018 3:36 pm

Oh, I was thinking more about virtual everesting or other climbing challenges. If Tacx Clouds reports correct or at least nice-looking altitude/ascent numbers and another program reports SRTM/Landsat-derived numbers, things get skewed.

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