Help! Noisy motorbrake unit due to loose roller

This section is for 110 Volt users all over the world USA/Canada for example

Moderators: mcorn, Tacx Moderator, malfukt, Nasz

Help! Noisy motorbrake unit due to loose roller

Postby richos » Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:31 pm

My Fortius is now four years old, the (110 V) motorbrake not quite as old, as it was replaced after maybe a half year. The last few months it's become quite noisy, chirping, whining, etc. I thought it was maybe the tires, or something to do with my new TTS3 software, where I have not found any way to calibrate, unlike the Fortius software.

But I finally noticed today that I can push sideways on the roller--the part that the tire rests on--and make this clicking noise. In other words, it's loose, and the little click I hear is greatly amplified when the Fortius is in use, like it becomes a steady whining noise. I would say this has slowly become a problem in the last six months.

So now I'm reading about some upgrade kit that came along a while ago. In any case, I'm wondering if I need a new motorbrake unit. How much is that going to cost? I doubt I'm a good enough mechanic to take the thing apart and repair it in any of the ways I've read about elsewhere on the forum, unless it's just a matter of a little grease.

Regarding calibration by the way, my Fortius software had an option for doing this, whereas I don't see any such setting in the TTS3 software. Does that mean calibration is done automatically? Maybe a dumb question, but what does calibration do anyway? Does it affect the resistance at all?
-Rich of Eagan, MN
richos
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:21 am
Location: USA, Eagan, MN

Postby mcorn » Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:48 pm

There is a whole very long section on using an epoxy fix to reattach the metal sleeve to the roller. I was fairly skeptical of the fix, but when I did it on my noisy unit it worked like a charm:

http://forum.tacx.com/viewtopic.php?t=7691

This does not require disassembly and has nothing to do with lubrication or grease.

The upgrade program for 110 volt units expired years ago. The new 110 volt units no longer have the 26 mph speed limitation and are much better, but you have to replace both the power supply (silver box) and motor unit as none of the old and new parts will work together. So, if you are happy, I would suggest trying the epoxy. It is a bit messy, so take it slow and easy.

All Tacx software has a calibration program. It's purpose is to measure the amount of drag in the system so you get a more accurate measurement of the amount of power you are producing with your legs.
mcorn
Moderator
 
Posts: 11384
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:55 pm
Location: USA, Seattle, Washington

Postby richos » Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:35 pm

First of all, thank you for the response.

I had looked at the epoxy fix section, and will look at it again. The "slippage" I see is, as far as I can tell, side to side, which I gather is what this other forum is describing as "loose". So this steel sleeve is like a larger diameter cylinder over another smaller diameter cylinder, and has come loose from the smaller one, what, because the epoxy has slowly come unattached? I'm grasping for the correct description here, but I assume re-drilling these holes and putting in new epoxy would remove this side to side slippage, right?

Sounds a lot cheaper that a new motor brake--estimating $250 for this--and a new power supply--don't have a price for this yet, but I'd be interested to find out.

Here in Minnesota, we're in the prime of the trainer usage season, so I wonder how long I can hold out with this noisy unit.

As far as calibration goes, again, I see no way to set it using the TTS3 software. It does seem to get set automatically. I still have the Fortius software available, so I suppose I could use that, as I used to, every time I switched my bike onto the trainer, after taking my wife's bike off. I would run maybe 2 minutes at most to calibrate, which was too little I see, but again, we're talking constant switching of bikes between two of us.

And I do find it amusing that I cannot exceed, well, 28-29 mph with the old hardware I have, especially going down hills that are 5%, 10%, or more. More amusing than that though, is why I would want to train going down a hill for five or ten miles.

Getting back to the epoxy fix, I'm willing to try it if a) there is a high probability it will work, b) there is a high probability that if I don't do it, the motor brake will quit working on me, and c) I know where I will be able to buy a new motor brake and power supply, and for how much. Probably knowing the "how much" will allow me to accept a lower probability for the "will work" part. I mean the thing is getting really noisy!
-Rich of Eagan, MN
richos
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:21 am
Location: USA, Eagan, MN

OK, so there is a way to calibrate...

Postby richos » Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:52 pm

Clicked on the motor brake picture to determine that it's version 0.10.4, And voila, there is the button to set the calibration! Probably my failure to read instructions.

But I still have this issue whereby I use the trainer, then my wife uses it, so that in any given week in the height of "trainer season", were switching bikes every other day at least. And we're not about to spend our first fifteen minutes warming up, in order to get a good calibration. I wonder if two minutes would be adequate, or at least give a more accurate reading for my wattage.

I find that my old rule of thumb, that the sum of my speed plus the slope should be some value (that I'm too embarrassed to say), seems to work out pretty well. Still, I wonder if I'm really that well removed from being able to sustain 300 watts for an hour (how about 200?), like I've read somewhere I need for the Tour de France...
-Rich of Eagan, MN
richos
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:21 am
Location: USA, Eagan, MN

Postby mcorn » Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:38 pm

Once calibrated, I don't bother to recalibrate very often. I just make sure the tire pressure stays the same. If you and your wife are switching out bikes, there is no way to avoid recalibrating if you want highest accuracy.

I can't make any promises on the epoxy fix as it does depend on doing it right and using a good quality epoxy. Right the forum and make up your own mind, but it is a lot cheaper than replacing the unit. The problem is the metal sleeve gets loose and starts spinning. Using the epoxy helps to re-anchor it in place. A couple of people have tried using superglue, but it did not help for me as the sleeve was too loose and the glue really did not fill the space.
mcorn
Moderator
 
Posts: 11384
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:55 pm
Location: USA, Seattle, Washington

Postby richos » Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:49 pm

I guess I will live with the noise until it comes to the point where the motor brake is "breaking down", if I can determine what that point is.

I would think the epoxy fix would either work, or at least not make things any worse. I'd be curious if anyone has tried the fix and wound up with a non-functioning motor brake as a result.

Again, thanks for your response. Maybe all of this discussion can save me from the expensive solution--I still need to price the two parts I'd need to replace, but I suspect we're talking $500 or more. I wonder how much a new Fortius, minus the steering unit would cost? Amazingly enough, in the four years I've owned this trainer, I've never bothered to use the steering, as I've never used anything but the real life DVDs.
-Rich of Eagan, MN
richos
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:21 am
Location: USA, Eagan, MN

Postby mcorn » Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:22 pm

Once the metal sleeve gets loose, I think it will cause rapid wear, so I believe you are better doing the fix sooner rather than later. I waited too long.
mcorn
Moderator
 
Posts: 11384
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:55 pm
Location: USA, Seattle, Washington

Postby richos » Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:42 pm

I am now wondering if the slippage I see is the same one described by the epoxy fix. When I push on the roller side to side, I create this "click", due to the entire roller slipping side to side, I would assume, certainly not the metal sleeve. There's just no room for the sleeve to move side to side, whereas the entire roller--or "drum" as I'll call it--is probably moving as much as a fraction of a millimeter.

I can see where if the metal sleeve comes loose, you have a big problem, but I wonder why the 12 holes filled with epoxy would no longer be adequate. I wonder how thick the metal sleeve is--maybe a millimeter? Since my tire comes nowhere close to it when in use, I wonder if I could sink some wood screws through the sleeve to anchor it in place. How thick is the urethane, is it a solid 1 cm or more thick in radius? I would assume it is, since the epoxy fix procedure talks about drilling in 10 mm. Why so deep--is the metal sleeve actually that thick????

Somehow the noise I hear is like that of a rusty, or dry drum turning on an axle that needs some grease, or new bearings. Not saying this is what's happening, or that this represents the construction of this motor brake, but it sure doesn't seem like the metal sleeve slipping is the problem.

So I can try the epoxy fix. If I can do the operation without killing the patient, so to speak, and if it will at least prevent a problem that may not be the big issue yet, great. But I'm not sure what the operation is: drill out all the 12 holes and fill with the right cement? Sounds reasonably easy. But I wonder if elsewhere on the forum, this problem has been further analyzed and diagnosed.

Just noticed that the "The noise from my Fortius Brake roller is caused by" forum is 11 pages--I had not noticed more than the first page (my stupid). Guess I need to read through this, but the more I look, the more I wonder about this repair, the possibility I'm going to screw it up, and especially the likelihood it's not going to solve the problem.
-Rich of Eagan, MN
richos
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:21 am
Location: USA, Eagan, MN

Postby mcorn » Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:52 pm

You ought to read the entire thread. People have lots of different ideas. However, there is very little clearance between the roller and plastic housing, so a screw that sticks up isn't going to work. And I don't think a screw is going to stay in the urethane very long.

I did not drill in a full 10mm as I did not see any reason to go that deep.

The sleeve is about 1/8" thick. Once it begins to loosen, it creates a lot of racket. However, if you have side to side movement of the spindle (and not just the sleeve), you may have another problem.

If you decide you need a new unit, you may be able to get an older Version 1 model to work with your power supply. I believe that Rudy at Ochsner USA (see Tacx service pages) could help you. They might have some of these older ones availble, perhaps at a better price.
mcorn
Moderator
 
Posts: 11384
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:55 pm
Location: USA, Seattle, Washington

Postby richos » Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:05 pm

Again, thanks for the reply.

Again, I really don't think the sleeve slipping is causing the "racket" (and that's certainly the right word for it!) I haven't contacted Rudy in years, but thanks for the suggestion, it's worth a try. Maybe I can get an older model motorbrake.

I'll also check the other forum to see if anyone has similar doubts about the origin of the "racket".

Let you all know what happens later.

PS Maybe it's just me. For instance, I'm the only one I know who's ever had a Merlin titanium frame break (form a crack around the down tube) not once, but twice!
-Rich of Eagan, MN
richos
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:21 am
Location: USA, Eagan, MN

Postby richos » Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:18 pm

I did apply the epoxy fix, and it seems to have fixed the problem, but I'll put the details over in http://forum.tacx.com/viewtopic.php?t=7691, i.e., the 220V forum. I have a 110V motor brake.

As an aside, there are a lot of postings throughout the Tacx forum. It is hard to find the precise topic one is looking for sometimes, and there is a fair amount of duplication. Not sure what to do about that, though it does seem like it would be interesting to make some sort of index.
-Rich of Eagan, MN
richos
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:21 am
Location: USA, Eagan, MN

Re: Help! Noisy motorbrake unit due to loose roller

Postby brianm1962 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:32 pm

I, too was sceptical about the Epoxy Fix. However, the noise of my Tacx Fortius had become unbearable and I was willing to try anything. I used an aluminium epoxy (JB-WELD) 'cause that's what I had available. I drilled the holes that are visible around the metal band, then used a toothpick to push the epoxy into the holes. I allowed it all to set for 24 hours. Wow! what a simple fix. Suddenly, my system is quiet again. I didn't realize how bad it had actually got. This totally worked for me.
brianm1962
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:32 pm
Location: Canada


Return to 110V Fortius - Cosmos

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests