Now it is official...

All information on TTS 4

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ms6073
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Now it is official...

Post by ms6073 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:34 pm

Just got this from Tacx:
Important notice! TTS 4 will no longer be supported

We introduced the TTS 4 software in 2011, which opened new doors to indoor cycling. Lots of enthusiast cyclists enjoyed the new possibilities with their bike trainers during the past years. But meanwhile the world has changed, technology has improved and Smart trainers have become better, so it’s time to move on! That’s why we’ve developed a more user friendly successor which primary focusses on Tacx Films, GPS rides and structured workouts and is based on the latest Windows, Mac, iOS and Android platforms.

Unfortunately though, this means that the TTS 4 can no longer be maintained. Therefore we stop selling TTS 4, Basic and TTS 4, Advanced by the end of this month on November 30th. This also goes for the Multiplayer license, GPS license and the Tacx Cycling app. From March 31st 2019, we will permanently discontinue with the maintenance and support of this product. Please note that the TTS 4 software still works after that date, and probably will for a long time. But we won’t develop new features and we can no longer guarantee its operation after this date. We sincerely appreciate your support and regret any inconvenience this necessary action causes you.

We encourage you to learn more about the Tacx Training app and the Tacx Desktop app, our new training software launched earlier this year. Enjoy a library filled with high quality training films, structured training plans, GPS workouts, tools to analyse and share your data, race and follow your friends. Available for Mac and Windows. Click here for more information.

Kind regards,
The Tacx team
TTS 4.19.1 | T2800 NEO Smart
MSI GS70 Laptop | Windows 10 x64 | Intel Core i7-4710HQ 2.40 GHz | 16 Gb DDR3 1600 MHz | GeForce GTX 870M
Samsung 32" LED TV

ttelmah
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Re: Now it is official...

Post by ttelmah » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:05 pm

Very stupid.

Instead of rewriting this to be a modern package (which given they should already have the flow charts, would be very easy), they insist on throwing away a good package.

mcorn
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Re: Now it is official...

Post by mcorn » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:04 pm

Tacx said on its website that TTS4 was legacy software at least since last April. They took that statement down for a short time and then replaced it with the more detailed one you have and with a drop dead date. I mentioned the legacy status previously on this forum.

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ms6073
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Re: Now it is official...

Post by ms6073 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:06 pm

ttelmah wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:05 pm
they insist on throwing away a good package.
Agreed. Of course it is probably easier to attract a completely new user base to the Tacx Desktop App where the subscription model will offer a more sustainable revenue stream, than to get those of us in the TTS crowd to move to the subscription model in order to offer a new/updated version of TTS. While I originally got on board with Tacx trainers and software to augment my cyclocross training, now that I am retired from racing, we ride the trainers as part of our approach to maintaining a healthy lifestyle, but the wife does not want/need the rigidity of structured workouts. Although I have used TDA's free features including workouts and find it an interesting change, the lack of the users ability to ride in a 'free-cycle' workout mode is a deal killer for my wife.
TTS 4.19.1 | T2800 NEO Smart
MSI GS70 Laptop | Windows 10 x64 | Intel Core i7-4710HQ 2.40 GHz | 16 Gb DDR3 1600 MHz | GeForce GTX 870M
Samsung 32" LED TV

mcorn
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Re: Now it is official...

Post by mcorn » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:18 pm

ms6073 wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:06 pm
where the subscription model will offer a more sustainable revenue stream
I think the thing that killed TTS for Tacx was they lost exclusive control of video sales to TTS users. They ended up facing a lot of competition from third-party video sellers, whose prices were far lower than Tacx prices. Perhaps if they had kept control and were able to enter into revenue sharing agreements with third-party sellers, TTS may have survived a while longer. The main reason they lost control was that TTS1 and TTS2 had the ability to convert older non-encrypted Fortius video files to encrypted TTS control files. So, by having a copy of these earlier versions of TTS, third-party video sellers were able to provide videos and a TTS control file that would work with the video functions in TTS3 and TTS4.

I also think another factor the world has shifted on how these programs are delivered. TTS4 has been around for a few years, so like all programs, it may be going through the natural life and death cycle of all software.

lupusalex
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Re: Now it is official...

Post by lupusalex » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:22 pm

It would be fine with me if the new desktop app would support all the films I have purchased for TTS4. But as I understand it does not. Means that the money I spent last winter is basically gone. I will continue riding TTS4 as long as it works, but I am pretty sure some Windows update in the future will break it. And I would also guess you cannot move your license to a new computer because TACX will probably take the license servers down.

This is a really good strategy to get rid of your customers. Well done TACX !

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Alex Masalovich
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Re: Now it is official...

Post by Alex Masalovich » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:43 pm

ms6073 wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:06 pm
Of course it is probably easier to attract a completely new user base to the Tacx Desktop App where the subscription model will offer a more sustainable revenue stream
Stupid politics: to create TDA, which is only for Windows 10 (and Mac), only for Bluetooth and only for Tacx smart trainers.
Тренируйтесь много, отдыхайте ещё больше!

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Re: Now it is official...

Post by mcorn » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:53 pm

lupusalex wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:22 pm
It would be fine with me if the new desktop app would support all the films I have purchased for TTS4.
I have suggested to Tacx that it try to find a way to give some kind of an allowance or credit for registered owners of Tacx videos. Some of the older TTS videos are in available for download in TDA, so that would seem to be a reasonable solution.

However, it might be the mechanics of doing this could be very complicated (establishing who is a registered owner of a TTS4 video).

Because TDA is a subscription system for which you pay a monthly fee regardless of which videos you download, it is probably not feasible to give a lifetime subscription to particular videos. But some kind of allowance or partial credit towards the monthly fee based on the number of videos you own might be workable.

All software companies face the problem of easy a transition into a new product and finding a way to reward older loyal customers is often done.

sgmack
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Re: Now it is official...

Post by sgmack » Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:47 am

Hi All

Could somebody please tell me the advantages of TDA over TTS 4.

It seems TDA has
No VR
Unable to alter video length.
Unable to start a video where you left off previously
Unable to use if no Internet
No lobby for Multiplayer so unable to race using video.
No free cycle mode
Unable to use existing paid for rlv's

If I'm missing something please let me know

Cheers.......Steve
https://www.strava.com/clubs/TTic
Last edited by sgmack on Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Zouf
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Re: Now it is official...

Post by Zouf » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:15 am

What TDA has that TTS does not: a recurring subscription model.

All kidding aside, I get that at some point Tacx has to move on. Zwift price increases and popularity has created a demand and a gap for a well-performing subscription app. But not having VR nor structured training makes TDA not quite “well-performing” for now.

Note that you *can* change the video length, by setting the start and end points as you want before riding a film.

sgmack
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Re: Now it is official...

Post by sgmack » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:21 am

Hi Zouf

Re changing video length..... You can already do what you say using TTS 4. In my opinion there is no advantage with TDA over TTS 4, which was the main thrust of my post.

Cheers........Steve
https://www.strava.com/clubs/TTic
NEO W2017
TTS4
SSD Hard Drive
Win 7 64 bit
AMD FX 6300 six core @3.5 ghz
Gigabyte 970 DSP MB
Nvidia 1050 TI
Kingston hyper x DDR 3 16gb @ 1600mhz

mcorn
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Re: Now it is official...

Post by mcorn » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:30 am

I think one of the big advantages of TDA is it gives you access to a huge library of very high quality videos, which seems to be increasing at a pretty rapid rate. The cost of such a library in TTS4 would be very high. Of course, in order to keep access to this library you have to maintain your monthly subscription.

Many of the functions you see in TTS4 are being added to TDA.

sgmack
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Re: Now it is official...

Post by sgmack » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:38 am

Hi mcorn

Any idea when TTS 4 style functions will be added to TDA ?..
I'd like to know before I pay a subscription for something that doesn't have the same functions as TTS 4 !!!
Also you say access to "very high quality video".......I believe you have to pay an even higher subscription for these ....

Cheers........Steve
https://www.strava.com/clubs/TTic
NEO W2017
TTS4
SSD Hard Drive
Win 7 64 bit
AMD FX 6300 six core @3.5 ghz
Gigabyte 970 DSP MB
Nvidia 1050 TI
Kingston hyper x DDR 3 16gb @ 1600mhz

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Dr Teeth
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Re: Now it is official...

Post by Dr Teeth » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:06 am

That's a bummer. I have 2 Mac's, neither of which can run TDA. In order for me to run TDA, I'd have to fork out a bunch of $ to replace one (Mac household only...). I'm running in Bootcamp, so I guess I'll just turn off Windows Update! Seriously though...that's a bummer :(

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Re: Now it is official...

Post by mcorn » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:02 am

sgmack wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:38 am
Hi mcorn

Any idea when TTS 4 style functions will be added to TDA ?..
I'd like to know before I pay a subscription for something that doesn't have the same functions as TTS 4 !!!
Also you say access to "very high quality video".......I believe you have to pay an even higher subscription for these ....

Cheers........Steve
https://www.strava.com/clubs/TTic
I'm a beta tester, but not free to talk about release dates for features. That has to come from Tacx. But they continue to work on stuff.

There are 2 subscription programs with the more expensive giving access to higher quality HD videos. I have to say that Phil's Bertha (electric assist bike) videos are very well done. He has been doing this for so long, he understands video production issues quite well. And he is currently using a very high quality 4K video sensor camera. My current display is a 53" 4K display and I am pleased with the quality on both HD and 4K videos.

My wife and I have used our tandem with Tacx software for many years and do mostly for fitness and enjoyment. We are too old to be data junkies, so don't pay too much attention to that. However, we have ridden some GPS files in TDA on outdoor rides we captured with a Garmin GPS unit and have been pleased with the quality. While we do not have a steady diet of GPS rides, they are nice once in a while and have sentimental vale in reminding us of our younger days.

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Re: Now it is official...

Post by thebigoneinfront » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:34 am

I think the missing „free cycle“ or „non-structured workout“ mode in TTS can be well replaced by downloading a suitable video in TDA and riding it at whatever intensity one desires. In TDA, videos don‘t cost extra, which may have kept some from doing this in TTS. It also seems to me that there is more choice of easy flat rides in TDA than there ever was in the DVD collection, and TTS „power mode“ is available there, too.

I’m not too happy with this decision either, mainly because my wife still has a very early Fortius with a full metal roller, so no need to replace it instead of the umpteenth epoxy fix, as long as the electronics don’t fry. I have little hope that TDA will ever be able to control the old wired trainers.

I agree that a recent investment in DVD RLVs smells a bit sour now, and that Tacx should find a way to compensate. Maybe some time of TDA for every DVD sent back to them, or for any disabled TTS or RLV license. Downloads are all documented in the online store. I find that I lost all interest in using any of my TTS RLVs because the quality of Phil’s newer videos is so much better.

sgmack
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Re: Now it is official...

Post by sgmack » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:52 am

Hi bigoneinfront

We shouldn't be trying to "adapt" TDA rlv's just to re create something that already exists in TTS 4 !!!!
I'm perfectly happy with the quality of the many rlv's I have. Obviously the quality of some are better than others, but it's accuracy of slope and syncro that I'm interested in.......
My favorites are the old Aube Valley, original Majorca Tour and Rabobank 2010. Ofcourse I don't have to pay to ride these !!!

@ mcorn
Many many thanks for all your efforts on this forum and also your beta testing over the many years you've supported Tacx.
I appreciate you can't say too much about what's in the TDA pipeline but as I posted earlier I'll withhold subscribing to TDA until the following functions are available.....as TDA has
No VR
Unable to start a video where you left off previously
Unable to use if no Internet
No lobby for Multiplayer so unable to race using video.
No free cycle mode
Unable to use existing paid for rlv's

Cheers........Steve
https://www.strava.com/clubs/TTic
NEO W2017
TTS4
SSD Hard Drive
Win 7 64 bit
AMD FX 6300 six core @3.5 ghz
Gigabyte 970 DSP MB
Nvidia 1050 TI
Kingston hyper x DDR 3 16gb @ 1600mhz

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Re: Now it is official...

Post by Tacx Video Production » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:18 pm

Its a bit of a shock to me also, they told me a few years. But really nothing has changed yet, I do not think they will remove the license server, there would be zero logic that I can understand for doing that other then spite for doing so.

TDA will not have VR at least not this winter, if you want VR there is Zwift & some other alternatives to it..kind of pointless to try to take these guys on, they live for their products.

TTS4 was actually quite profitable but had become a house of cards to make any changes to. If you like RLV then the subscription is obviously massively better value. Its actually peanuts for what you get access to. Quality wise the 720p is about the same as the HD in TTS4 because of the better codecs used. The Full HD is a whole new class, especially that which comes from the cinema 4K raw footage.. We have 4K in Beta but I doubt that Tacx will ever release these to the mass market. As TDA grows in features its losing its ability run them smooth. Maybe if there was a demand...but there is none just now.

For the guy that liked Aube Valley, we almost re-filmed it a few weeks ago on route back from filming Val Thorens ;-) which is finished....but I got no answer from Tacx about releasing it.....like old times

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Re: Now it is official...

Post by thebigoneinfront » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:41 pm

Hi Steve - I fully understand your position. I just think it‘s not perfectly fair to say there‘s no free cycling mode in TDA when the functionality is there, included in the subscription, with nice views on top. Agree there’s no point switching to a TDA subscription if one is happy with the Catalyst graphs and old videos (you list my own old favourites) and wants VR, or old style Multiplayer. (Multiplayer fun might be had in TDA with some extra effort by using the opponents now shown in videos and some offline arrangements.) For RLV junkies with a Smart trainer, TDA is the more heavenly heaven compared to TTS. Let‘s hope Tacx keeps adding missing functionality to TDA.

sgmack
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Re: Now it is official...

Post by sgmack » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:18 pm

Hi bigoneinfront

I agree with your comments.

I suppose Tacx can't please all of the people all of the time !!! It's just that myself and many others are perfectly happy with TTS 4. I'm trying hard to keep the Tacx online community together after it was decimated when Google revoked their Google Earth license. Once people leave the Tacx platform it's very hard to get them back !!!

Some online riders I've known for over 15 years.... I've also met many of them in real life. They are a fantastic group of people. We ride hard and train hard together..... and always manage to have a laugh whilst doing so !!!

This latest decision by Tacx has possibly dealt my Strava Club a bit of a Hammer Blow
https://www.strava.com/clubs/TTic

@ Phil
As you say there is no VR in TDA. Are you suggesting I use Zwift & TDA in order to replicate, to some degree TTS 4 ??
This would cost me £12.99 for Zwift & £8.90 or £12.30 for TDA......a possible £25.29 ( GBP ) Per Month !!!!!!

Cheers.........Steve
https://www.strava.com/clubs/TTic
NEO W2017
TTS4
SSD Hard Drive
Win 7 64 bit
AMD FX 6300 six core @3.5 ghz
Gigabyte 970 DSP MB
Nvidia 1050 TI
Kingston hyper x DDR 3 16gb @ 1600mhz

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