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Re: TTS4 VR vs Fortius

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:00 pm
by sgmack
Hi Tom

Sorry to hear you don't like constant gear changes. I assume you haven't ridden many CX or MTB events !!
I would suggest you stay away from Downhill Valley ( lots of ups & downs ) and Montagne ( mountains with descents ).......

Also stay away from Lap based training in Valeggio !!

The best VR courses which don't need alot of gear changes are Metropolitan, Paradise Island, Golden Circle & Velodrome.
Lap based training in Golden Circle also doesn't require many gear changes.
Certain courses in Golden Circle are pretty good too but some can get quite hilly !!!

You could also check out some of the many RLV's that Tacx offer........These could be a pretty good option for you.

A few of us train regularly on Tuesday & Thursday evenings @ 7pm UK time
These sessions are streamed live here
http://original.livestream.com/tacxtoursintervals

Please feel free to take a look........or perhaps even join us some time !!!

Cheers..........Steve

Re: TTS4 VR vs Fortius

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:27 pm
by xicon
Hi Tom,

My reaction to TTS4 VR was the same as yours. The sudden +5% to -5% rollar coaster in Montagna and Valeggio was killing my knees and shifters. However, I like variety and wanted to create the most VR rides that I could. One solution is to set the Power Mode (in "Settings" on the course selection pages) to a value less than 100. I'm not a real strong rider so I use 20%. This effectively reduces the slope on hills, both up and down. I still have to shift for general changes in slope but, for me, this setting eliminates the need to shift for the roller coaster dips in the general slope. You can still get as hard a workout going up the hills as you want; you just go faster. But you also go slower going downhill so it tends to average out.

You may want to try a higher number than I do but once you find the right setting, it makes these VR terrains usable and enjoyable - as long as you are not prone to motion sickness. The constant swerving back and forth across the road in Montagna can get a bit unsettling if you are. My wife cannot ride Montagna. I use the view with the rider in it. This tends to ease the mental view of a wildly shifting perspective.

You ultimately may not like my solution, but might want to give it a try.

Tom

Re: TTS4 VR vs Fortius

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:53 am
by ttelmah
I think part of the problem depends on which trainer hardware you actually have.
I have an old Fortius, and a Neo. On the latter in particular it is noticeable that when you hit any slope, you have to change down much quicker than on a similar 'real' slope (in fact the same slope if you are testing with GPS). The simulation of inertia doesn't work quite right, and where on the real slope you can keep pedalling as you slow, only having to change down as the speed decays away, on the simulation, it is as if you are already several meters up the slope, and you can hear the speed drop almost immediately, and you have to change much more rapidly than you do on the real slope. This makes the 'roller coaster' behaviour far more objectionable.... :(

Re: TTS4 VR vs Fortius

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:38 am
by sgmack
Hi ttelmah

I know exactly what you mean by a lack of inertia on some VR courses, but I slightly disagree with you re sudden gradient changes in gps/real life rides.

Have you ever ridden the Fred Whitton Sportive.........The approach and start of Hardnott Pass you get no inertia and come to a grinding halt !!
The same is also true in the Mamotte Sportive where you swing a left just before the start of the Croix de Fer.......again coming to a grinding halt with no inertia,and with quite a few riders falling over because they couldn't un clip in time.
And one last one........during the Ronde Picarde at the start of the short climb at Ault, where you go straight down then straight up again !!!

Admittedly though none of the above can be called "roller coaster" courses.

Zwift does do gradient changes better than some TTS VR courses, but i do believe certain TTS VR courses are worth persevering with.
I don't think Tacx will update TTS4 by smoothing courses, but that won't stop me riding them regularly !!!

Cheers...........Steve

Re: TTS4 VR vs Fortius

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:48 pm
by ms6073
sgmack wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:19 pm
Vallegio ............Can be a little difficult but we use the coloured climbing icons for hill rep sessions........going hard on the red icon and easing up at the green one. I created a course called "5 times round"......It's one of our favorites.
Is '5 times round' on BikeNet?

Typically have not used VR, but after reading your description and the nasty weather we are having of late, gave both a couple laps of Metropolitan and Velagio a go yesterday. Have to say the roads on the Metropolitan course must be really bad because I was seeing watts in excess of 125% of FTP just to maintain 20 mph (32 kph). On the other hand, while difficult at times, Velagio was nice as the terrain is very similar to the rolling hills around a little town an hour west of us.

Re: TTS4 VR vs Fortius

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:40 pm
by sgmack
Hi ms6073

Strange you had issues with Metropolitan. I've found the roads there virtually pan flat. We've used this course for our 4mins hard 2mins easy sessions.
Riding through the park can get a little sticky but i stay away from there.

I'll upload "5 times round" to Bikenet and let you know.

Cheers...........Steve

Re: TTS4 VR vs Fortius

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:36 pm
by Alex Masalovich
sgmack wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:40 pm
I'll upload "5 times round" to Bikenet and let you know.
Is not that what you're talking about?

Image

Re: TTS4 VR vs Fortius

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:15 pm
by sgmack
Hi Alex

Many Thanks..........Yes that's the one. I couldn't remember uploading but obviously my mate David did !!!

@ ms6073.........Slight uphill start but basically you ride easy until you hit a red icon, then go as hard as possible, easing up at a green icon.
Ride easy until you hit the next red icon then go like hell......easing up at the green icon.....Repeat for 5 laps.

Five times round is basically a hill rep session. Don't forget to warm up before starting !!!

Cheers.........Steve

Re: TTS4 VR vs Fortius

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:20 pm
by ttelmah
sgmack wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:38 am
Hi ttelmah

I know exactly what you mean by a lack of inertia on some VR courses, but I slightly disagree with you re sudden gradient changes in gps/real life rides.

Have you ever ridden the Fred Whitton Sportive.........The approach and start of Hardnott Pass you get no inertia and come to a grinding halt !!
The same is also true in the Mamotte Sportive where you swing a left just before the start of the Croix de Fer.......again coming to a grinding halt with no inertia,and with quite a few riders falling over because they couldn't un clip in time.
And one last one........during the Ronde Picarde at the start of the short climb at Ault, where you go straight down then straight up again !!!

Admittedly though none of the above can be called "roller coaster" courses.

Zwift does do gradient changes better than some TTS VR courses, but i do believe certain TTS VR courses are worth persevering with.
I don't think Tacx will update TTS4 by smoothing courses, but that won't stop me riding them regularly !!!

Cheers...........Steve
There are many real life courses where you suddenly hit something like a 33% gradient and have to get down the gears really fast. However the problem with the simulation brings the same effect into play as much lower gradients, and with shorter slope lengths. :(