Running TTS4 with Windows 10 Creator's Edition

All information on TTS 4

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mcorn
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Running TTS4 with Windows 10 Creator's Edition

Post by mcorn » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:15 pm

Just curious if anyone has updated to Windows 10 Creators Edition and, if so, whether you are having any problems running TTS4. I was already having some issues with pre-Creator's Edition, but it is now worse with this new Microsoft feature release.

djagerif
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Re: Running TTS4 with Windows 10 Creator's Edition

Post by djagerif » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:44 pm

Yes, I get a .NET unhandled exception in the Windows Application logs and then TTS4 crashes.

mcorn
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Re: Running TTS4 with Windows 10 Creator's Edition

Post by mcorn » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:29 pm

djagerif wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:44 pm
Yes, I get a .NET unhandled exception in the Windows Application logs and then TTS4 crashes.
Does it crash when you open TTS4 or when you try to run a video? My problem is running videos. I can run some videos with VP1, but VP2 almost always crashes when I try to start the video.

How long ago did you install the creator's edition update? Are you running the most recent update of TTS4? Have you tried running TTS3, which does appear to work for me.

ttelmah
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Re: Running TTS4 with Windows 10 Creator's Edition

Post by ttelmah » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:38 pm

Ever since I installed the Creator's edition, I've had UAC complain when I start the TTS application. It says the license has expired. If you ask for the properties it actually expired over a year ago, but hadn't complained till the new edition. So MS has obviously tightened this. Tacx really need to get the license renewed. Now whether this has any connection to your problem I don't know. However otherwise it runs OK.
On another machine though I've seen problems with Intel drivers. The Creator's edition put the drivers back to an older version than those on the Intel site, which was causing video and motherboard problems. I updated from the Intel site (had to be rather forceful and say I wanted to do this), and these problems then disappeared.
The Creator's edition does drink more memory than the previous versions, and therefore the problems caused by too many runs (various TTS crashes, including at boot), occur much earlier. The indexing that causes this is part of the Net studio stuff, so I'd try moving some of the runs to a safe place, and see if this helps.

djagerif
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Re: Running TTS4 with Windows 10 Creator's Edition

Post by djagerif » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:12 pm

@mcorn, same as you, only when I start a video. I reverted back to Win 10 1607 and all works perfectly. Oops, almost forgot, I upgraded to 1703 on Saturday and I had all the latest software on TTS4 and Win10 updates. Now I have the latest TTS4 running with 1607.

mcorn
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Re: Running TTS4 with Windows 10 Creator's Edition

Post by mcorn » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:45 pm

I spoke too soon about TTS4 partially working with creator's edition. It pretty much crashes whenever I try to use any of the menus to look at or change something.

ttelmah
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Re: Running TTS4 with Windows 10 Creator's Edition

Post by ttelmah » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:17 am

A question.

How did you get the update?.
Did you machine just 'do it for you', or did you manually install?.

MS has been advising for a while against doing the latter. The actual update has problems on a lot of systems, and they have been rolling it out to more, as they fix these.
If it was just the automatic update, then this doesn't apply.

Other things causing lots of issues:
Some video drivers.
Some motherboard drivers.
Some anti-virus programs (in some cases interfering with the running of the machine after the update, and in some cases causing some parts of the install to be corrupted....).

Have you got the 4015583 update on .Net?. Some people have reported this failing to install, if it isn't installed before the Creator's update.

I'd suspect that stepping back is the safest thing to do at present... :(

mcorn
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Re: Running TTS4 with Windows 10 Creator's Edition

Post by mcorn » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:48 pm

I accelerated the update to creator's as I needed it for other reasons. There is an MS link to a Creator's Update Assistance that will allow you do do this. Other than Tacx software, the PC is working fine with the update. I will see if there are any .net install failures.

ttelmah
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Re: Running TTS4 with Windows 10 Creator's Edition

Post by ttelmah » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:37 pm

If it didn't arrive automatically, then it means some item in your hardware is known to have issues.

Look at:
<https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/04/2 ... rs_update/>

They have been releasing it to more machines with each month's updates, as things are fixed, but they still advise against taking it early.
They repeated that advice in a Technet bulletin last month....

mcorn
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Re: Running TTS4 with Windows 10 Creator's Edition

Post by mcorn » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:01 pm

ttelmah wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:37 pm
If it didn't arrive automatically, then it means some item in your hardware is known to have issues.

Look at:
<https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/04/2 ... rs_update/>

They have been releasing it to more machines with each month's updates, as things are fixed, but they still advise against taking it early.
They repeated that advice in a Technet bulletin last month....
I had to have the product in order to do some testing. I did an install using MS's Creator assistant, which does a check to see if it is suitable for the PC. I already was having some issues with TTS4 videos not working correctly when I did a free upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10 and the Creator version seem to make it worse. So far, TTS4 seems to be the only program for me with issues under Creators. Interestingly, TTS3 is still working fine.

lahouter
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Re: Running TTS4 with Windows 10 Creator's Edition

Post by lahouter » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:21 pm

....and as we have become accustomed to...Tacx does not respond or acknowledge the problem (so that we at least know they are working on a solution). My recommendation: Switch to Zwift!

mcorn
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Re: Running TTS4 with Windows 10 Creator's Edition

Post by mcorn » Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:43 pm

On my non-Tacx PC's at home, I have noticed that in the last couple of days Microsoft pushed out Creator's Edition. My earlier post was the result of an early install of Creator's Edition on a PC that I used primarily for Tacx software and after that, I started having even greater problems running TTS4.

So, if others are getting Creator's Edition installed, they may experience new TTS4 problems.

If that happens, please report the problems to Tacx using the Support Tool. It is important they receive these reports along with log files.

ttelmah
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Re: Running TTS4 with Windows 10 Creator's Edition

Post by ttelmah » Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:01 pm

Yes. A neighbour who also has a Tacx trainer has just had exactly this happen.

He rolled back to the previous windows version as soon as he had problems, and it has started working OK again.
So I can confirm that on some machines the Creator's update stops TTS4 from working. The roll-back should fix it though. I'd
suspect you may have had something else like a driver change, that is now stopping it working.

He also tried selecting the compatibility options back to W8.1, and W7, without any success.
In the 'go back' dialog, he has reported that the reason was because TTS4 did not work, which may draw MS's notice to this being a problem.

ttelmah
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Re: Running TTS4 with Windows 10 Creator's Edition

Post by ttelmah » Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:40 pm

Try something.

Control Panel.
Programs and features.
Turn Windows features on or off

Find "Microsoft Message Queue (MSMQ) Server".
Tick it, then underneath select the Microsoft Message Queue Server Core, and enable this.

They have turned it off by default in the Creators update.

The feature this gives in now being replaced by another feature, but you need this enabled for anything that uses this messaging.

My system has another application loaded that ensured this was turned on, which is why Creators update worked for me....

I visited my friend and loaded the System event logs, and at the moment that TTS4 stops working, there is an event saying that a message could not be sent. The TTS4 logs don't record anything. His seems to be running again now....

The comment is:
"Microsoft Message Queue (MSMO) Server: This old service improves communications on unreliable networks by queuing messages rather than sending them immediately. This is only useful if you have a business application that specifically requires and uses this feature."

TTS4 does rely on this.

mcorn
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Re: Running TTS4 with Windows 10 Creator's Edition

Post by mcorn » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:06 pm

Well, after Creators Edition installed without problems on two 64-bit PC's (one is used for Tacx software), it made a total and complete mess of a 32-bit PC that I also used for Tacx software. Once Windows wanted to install this upgrade it was caught in an endless loop of trying and failing. After a few tries, the restored Windows 10 stopped working properly and could not be fixed. It was such a mess that I had to do a total reinstall of the OS. This PC had been extremely reliable and has minimal software, but it was originally a PC with Windows 7 that did a free Windows 10 upgrade. Trying to install the 1703 Creators Edition always failed on the final reboot. My limited research suggested it was likely a driver problem, but using selective startup and safe mode to diagnose was unsuccessful and I got tired of fiddling. Anyway, I was able to install Creators Edition by downloading an ISO file of a complete 1703 installer.

So, I will have to reinstall my Tacx software from scratch. I am not expecting TTS4 to work very well as my 64-bit PC has problems described elsewhere.

lahouter
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Re: Running TTS4 with Windows 10 Creator's Edition

Post by lahouter » Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:52 am

Has ANYNONE reported having a successful Tacx 4 set up on Windows 10 Creators edition? I am also building a new PC for my indoor trainer and I suspect the online ISO image I will be downloading will already by 1703 Creators edition. I am not sure if you can download the previous 1607 from Windows as an ISO image and I do not have Window 10 on a DVD.

ttelmah
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Re: Running TTS4 with Windows 10 Creator's Edition

Post by ttelmah » Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:37 pm

When you go to download, you can select the older version.

In the download page:
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/softwar ... ndows10ISO>
You can select Anniversary or Creators versions.

'N' is the limited version without media player.

These activate whatever sub version (home, professional etc.), your license number gives.

lahouter
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Re: Running TTS4 with Windows 10 Creator's Edition

Post by lahouter » Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:50 pm

Awesome. Thank you!

mikee
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Re: Running TTS4 with Windows 10 Creator's Edition

Post by mikee » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:22 pm

Creator updated itself onto my 64 bit machine over a month ago and use 2 days a week without issue.
Normally only use RLV's but just got google license and used that twice now without issue.

mcorn
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Re: Running TTS4 with Windows 10 Creator's Edition

Post by mcorn » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:46 pm

I have now re-installed TTS3 and TTS4 on my freshly-installed 32-bit Creators Edition (I did TTS3 first). The re-installs proceeded without any problems. On a very short TTS3 test, it appeared to work okay, but I have not done hardly anything. (In the past, TTS3 has worked without problems on W10 and W10 Creators Edition.) On the first test ride of a Tacx video on TTS4, the video would not start and I got a strange dialog box on the desktop about either running or saving a GPS file. This looks like something to do with the Google Maps function. I could not get the video to start, so I shut down TTS4. On the next start, I was able to get a Tacx Video to work. In both cases, I selected VP1 as VP2 has created a lot of problems in W10.

So, we will see how it goes.

Whether to re-install the OS as W10 1603 or Creators Edition 1703 is a bit of a dilemma. Sooner or later 1703 is going to be pushed out to all machines, so if you have to do a clean install, doing it as 1703 may be a bit less risky than doing 1603 now and upgrading to 1703 later. Who really knows.

One thing I found is the ISO images will only do an upgrade install of the OS within a running Windows program (you select the setup file rather than boot from the disc). When I tried to boot from the ISO disc, it would not allow me to perform an upgrade of an existing OS (probably a product key issue). If you want to do a clean install starting with the setup file, you have to select delete programs and apps. Otherwise, it tries to install over the current OS, which would not work for me.

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