Neo - reistance/power problems in sprint efforts

General discussion about the ANT+ Trainers

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Stewart G.
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Re: Neo - reistance/power problems in sprint efforts

Post by Stewart G. » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:29 pm

ms6073 wrote:
gplama wrote:the Neo is applying 50-100W of resistance at low RPM and low torque and when I KICK the unit isn't able to respond to the required 800-900W+(?) of resistance you experience from a traditional trainer with a flywheel.
Personally, I think the NEO is exhibiting issues as a result of your sudden change in cadence, which is causing osculations in resistance as the Neo tries to align resistance. Are you using TTS, Tacx training app, or a 3rd party app like TrainerRoad or Zwift?
Sorry for answering a question directed at Shane but I have been using it on Zwift which I think he is using it on there as well.

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ms6073
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Re: Neo - reistance/power problems in sprint efforts

Post by ms6073 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:42 pm

In the case of Zwift, I would have to ask if either of you has made any efforts to reproduce the issue on another application like the free Tacx Cycling app to ensure this is actually an issue with the hardware, and not a bug in the software? While ANT+ FE-C is a standardized communication protocol, how developers implement it to control interaction between applications and Smart Trainers is not necessarily a one size fits all solution.
TTS 4.19.1 | T2800 NEO Smart [formerly Bushido & Fortius]
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gplama
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Re: Neo - reistance/power problems in sprint efforts

Post by gplama » Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:06 am

I've reproduced this with Zwift, Tacx Trainer (slope mode and power mode), and with nothing controlling the Neo unit. This is what leads me to believe it's simply how the system operates.

The YouTube video I linked to is an acceleration from an almost standing start, well, torque wise it'll be similar. I can accept this as a limitation of the unit design, and that's ok for me. Where this issue really hampers things is during a sprint effort, where as mentioned in previous posts, the resistance is mushy at the bottom of the pedal stroke making sprinting a horrible experience. I've spent a day or so researching this and talking to a lot of Neo owners - The general consensus being it's no good for sprinting if you're stomping numbers around 1000W+

I'm hoping there can be refinements made within the firmware, for now I'll be reluctantly outlining this issue in detail in my upcoming review. I want to love the unit, I spent a lot of money on it.... but.... I also can't defend it if it's failing me.

As always, I appreciate the comments guys. Thanks for posting.

Stewart G.
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Re: Neo - reistance/power problems in sprint efforts

Post by Stewart G. » Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:18 pm

gplama wrote:I've reproduced this with Zwift, Tacx Trainer (slope mode and power mode), and with nothing controlling the Neo unit. This is what leads me to believe it's simply how the system operates.

The YouTube video I linked to is an acceleration from an almost standing start, well, torque wise it'll be similar. I can accept this as a limitation of the unit design, and that's ok for me. Where this issue really hampers things is during a sprint effort, where as mentioned in previous posts, the resistance is mushy at the bottom of the pedal stroke making sprinting a horrible experience. I've spent a day or so researching this and talking to a lot of Neo owners - The general consensus being it's no good for sprinting if you're stomping numbers around 1000W+

I'm hoping there can be refinements made within the firmware, for now I'll be reluctantly outlining this issue in detail in my upcoming review. I want to love the unit, I spent a lot of money on it.... but.... I also can't defend it if it's failing me.

As always, I appreciate the comments guys. Thanks for posting.
Nice review Shane and it is a pretty fair assessment.
I train often at work in my back shop so couldn't go for a Kickr because I needed a trainer to be as quiet as my Computrainer and thought the Neo sounded perfect.

Unfortunately it looks like a poorly designed machine if it can't handle sprinting at just over 1000W which is not really anything unusual for a reasonably trained cyclist.
If I had known it had this problem I wouldn't have bought it and would just stick with the CT until the new (quieter)Kickr comes out.
It is a shame because everything else works great.

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Re: Neo - reistance/power problems in sprint efforts

Post by Tacx support » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:20 pm

Tacx is aware of this issue in sprints and looking for a solution at this moment

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gplama
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Re: Neo - reistance/power problems in sprint efforts

Post by gplama » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:39 pm

Excellent! Thanks for the update team. Looking forward to any developments.

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ms6073
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Re: Neo - reistance/power problems in sprint efforts

Post by ms6073 » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:39 pm

What about the issues with erratic cadence that many users, myself included, have reported?
TTS 4.19.1 | T2800 NEO Smart [formerly Bushido & Fortius]
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Re: Neo - reistance/power problems in sprint efforts

Post by Tacx support » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:22 pm

yes we are also checking that> We have seen with 3rd party apps or exports this is shown up
Ps still report issue to support@tacx.com if you have issues on this

cyclingboy1
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Re: Neo - reistance/power problems in sprint efforts

Post by cyclingboy1 » Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:05 pm

Has anyone figured out how to improve the resistance problems with sprinting?

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Re: Neo - reistance/power problems in sprint efforts

Post by Tacx support » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:23 am

we are now running some tests with a new firmware version
when all tests are done, we will put the new update online

LegendaryMrDude
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Re: Neo - reistance/power problems in sprint efforts

Post by LegendaryMrDude » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:07 am

I tried 0.5.1/0.2.1/0.6.11 this morning and my initial impressions are that the guys and girls at Tacx have done a great job!

Sprint efforts feel rock solid, no virtual tyre slip and inow it's my legs that give up before the turbo on maximum effort intervals. It also feels like there might have been some more tweaks to the inertia model as the overall "road-feel" on Zwift seems even better than the previous release.

Great work and surely places the Neo as "the smart trainer to beat"!

Sam.

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Re: Neo - reistance/power problems in sprint efforts

Post by Tacx support » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:09 am

Your welcome sam. Thanks everybody for the fieldtesting in this. Was not easy to get a lot of 1200 Watt sprinters in :).

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ms6073
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Re: Neo - reistance/power problems in sprint efforts

Post by ms6073 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:54 pm

I installed the 0.5.1/0.2.1/0.6.11 updates on our Neo's last night and would agree that improvements have been implemented. In Watt-Time workouts, I am no longer seeing the widly erratic cadence issues I had observed after installing the last update, but it is still not as steady as the cadence my wife observes from her Neo. Also, while training with an SRM connected to TTS4 is a bit improved, it is still not back to the level of performance prior to the previous firmware update. With this update, with the SRM connected, there are still relatively abrupt/large swings in Neo resistance (+/- 50-75 watts) in response to very small changes in cadence (2-5 rpm).
Last edited by ms6073 on Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TTS 4.19.1 | T2800 NEO Smart [formerly Bushido & Fortius]
MSI GS70 Laptop | Windows 10 x64
Intel Core i7-4710HQ 2.40 GHz | 16 Gb DDR3 1600 MHz
GeForce GTX 870M | 256 GB SSD x 2 RAID 0 + 1 TB HDD
Samsung 32" LED TV

Pedalsndirt
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Re: Neo - reistance/power problems in sprint efforts

Post by Pedalsndirt » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:13 pm

Ever since the last update I also will agree Sprinting is better and cadence detection has Slightly improved. I still have erratic cadences at higher RPMs. Particularly when I spin at 90+ RPM. Also, I now have dropouts in outputs. Randomly during my training rides the power/cadence/speed outputs will disappear.

The dropouts are very, very bad. I NEVER had this issue before this update.

Pontus
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Re: Neo - reistance/power problems in sprint efforts

Post by Pontus » Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:52 pm

Has there been any progression on this? I own a Neo since couple of weeks back and yesterday, in a sprint, I noticed the slipping first time. I am 89kg and my wattage was 1200-1300W for 7-8 seconds. Very irritating given this training should manage >2000W.

sailesy
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Re: Neo - reistance/power problems in sprint efforts

Post by sailesy » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:12 am

I have this issue with my neo. On zwift going up escalator area, quick sprint at max wattage it feels mushy and like my back wheel is slipping. I also get this in other steep areas of zwift when making efforts on hills. Is this a unit issue, firmware or zwift problem
Many thanks

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