New Tacx Neo first impressions

General discussion about the ANT+ Trainers

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thebigoneinfront
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Re: New Tacx Neo first impressions

Post by thebigoneinfront » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:25 pm

There‘s a part on Neo accuracy a bit down in Titaniumgeek‘s report on a visit to Tacx. Unless you are talking about 15W too low @ 1500 W there should be someone at Tacx who cares. http://titaniumgeek.com/the-house-that- ... dventures/

mcorn
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Re: New Tacx Neo first impressions

Post by mcorn » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:15 pm

thebigoneinfront wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:25 pm
There‘s a part on Neo accuracy a bit down in Titaniumgeek‘s report on a visit to Tacx. Unless you are talking about 15W too low @ 1500 W there should be someone at Tacx who cares. http://titaniumgeek.com/the-house-that- ... dventures/
I am sure there are a lot of people who care. It often comes down to cost and what customers are willing to pay. It's known as the triple constraint, iron triangle, etc. Having very high demands in terms of accuracy and reliability inevitably raises the cost and increases the schedule. And accuracy may be affected by things that are not tested in the factory or things that happen to the product after it leaves the factory.

But I had not seen this article and it does look like they put a fair amount of work into brake quality.

I think there are other approaches to accuracy as well, such as using existing high grade industrial motors rather than having to build your own from scratch. I am probably not as crazy about plastic as I would be willing to have heavier metal components if it kept cost down and increased the strength and longevity of the product.

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kostyap
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Re: New Tacx Neo first impressions

Post by kostyap » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:43 pm

mcorn wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:15 pm
...I am probably not as crazy about plastic as I would be willing to have heavier metal components if it kept cost down and increased the strength and longevity of the product.
Increasing strength and longevity metal components do, keeping the costs they do not. Quality metal costs small fortune.

mcorn
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Re: New Tacx Neo first impressions

Post by mcorn » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:47 am

kostyap wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:43 pm
mcorn wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:15 pm
...I am probably not as crazy about plastic as I would be willing to have heavier metal components if it kept cost down and increased the strength and longevity of the product.
Increasing strength and longevity metal components do, keeping the costs they do not. Quality metal costs small fortune.
I was thinking more of frames and supporting structures rather than investment castings or expensive machined metal.

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bokeh
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Re: New Tacx Neo first impressions

Post by bokeh » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:24 am

MalMac65 wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:00 pm
Ok I'm back and I have some disturbing news to report!

Determined to find some kind of proof that something isn't right I thought I would try the cross referencing power meter test again. This time things were decidedly different! This time I managed to pair Zwift to my Quarq and my Garmin to the Neo! The Quarq was now reporting the wattage to Zwift and already I could feel the difference. So I started a workout in ERG mode (so I could keep the wattage stable) @190, 255 and 280w. At all power levels the Neo was reporting about 15w less than what Zwift was telling me with the Quarq. So for example at 255w on Zwift/Quarq my Garmin was reporting the Neo at only 240w! I tried several times and got the same result every time. As a quick reference I realized that my new FTP on the Neo was 260w and my old FTP on the fluid was 277w. A difference of 17w. Also my on 20 min power was 285w equating to an FTP of 270w. A difference of 10w. I am now convinced that the Neo is indeed causing the feeling of "harder to pedal at the 'same' power" than on road or the fluid trainer....because it is. My Zwift/Neo combination is requiring about 215w of power whilst only reporting 200w of power. I'm convinced that the "slope" of the power reporting is correct but the offset is wrong. My Neo needs to be "tared" somehow to make it match my Quarq and indeed the zpower that Zwift was reporting using my fluid trainer.
Were you ever provided any feedback or suggestions from Tacx? I seem to have this exact same condition where I'm consistently about 15-20w below my expected/perceived effort. I had the opportunity to ride my fathers Neo this past weekend and was able to maintain a higher average wattage over the several rides I did on Zwift. One other thing to note is that the higher watt efforts were also less fatiguing on his machine as well, there was a silky and natural smoothness to his machine that was really satisfying and appears to be missing from mine. Both machines have the latest firmware's as I updated his while visiting. I've crossed referenced with a pair of Power tap P1's and Garmin Vector 3 pedals with the same discrepancy as your experience quoted above. The slope seems correct, but the offset is wrong. Thanks for any update!

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ms6073
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Re: New Tacx Neo first impressions

Post by ms6073 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:45 pm

bokeh wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:24 am
the higher watt efforts were also less fatiguing on his machine as well, there was a silky and natural smoothness to his machine that was really satisfying and appears to be missing from mine.
Off the top of my head, it seems to me that your Neo appears to be missing several firmware updates as that describes our Neo's when they were new out of the box 12-months ago.
Firmware updates (Tacx Utility app)
21-12-2017

Combination: Macbook + Bluetooth connection + ERG training gives problems with cadence and adaptation of the power (delay). Other combinations do not have problems (iOS, ANT + mobile link etc).

(18122017) Latest versie: 0.2.1/0.7.4/0.8.4

NEO pedal stroke for Tacx Desktop application

low cadens issues fixed
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bokeh
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Re: New Tacx Neo first impressions

Post by bokeh » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:31 pm

ms6073 wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:45 pm
bokeh wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:24 am
the higher watt efforts were also less fatiguing on his machine as well, there was a silky and natural smoothness to his machine that was really satisfying and appears to be missing from mine.
Off the top of my head, it seems to me that your Neo appears to be missing several firmware updates as that describes our Neo's when they were new out of the box 12-months ago.
Firmware updates (Tacx Utility app)
21-12-2017

Combination: Macbook + Bluetooth connection + ERG training gives problems with cadence and adaptation of the power (delay). Other combinations do not have problems (iOS, ANT + mobile link etc).

(18122017) Latest versie: 0.2.1/0.7.4/0.8.4

NEO pedal stroke for Tacx Desktop application

low cadens issues fixed
Hi, and thank you for the response and suggestions. Per the Tacx utility app (iOS) the firmware is up-to-date, and riding the TDA on an older windows machine I have the pedal stroke widget active. I've tried my NEO with Apple TV, Windows PC (via both ANT+ and Bluetooth), 2016 MacBook Pro (via both ANT+ and Bluetooth) and the feel of the machine is distinctly different on all platforms than my father's NEO which I had the opportunity to use this past weekend (Apple TV).

Before riding my father's NEO I just assumed that is how they felt but after riding his it makes me question if mine is operating normally. I'll attempt to be a little more rigorous with my assessments going forward and see if I can validate any reported watt discrepancies between some Vector 3 pedals and the NEO.

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