Choppy Video and little forward progress

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FlyingEagle
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Choppy Video and little forward progress

Post by FlyingEagle » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:29 am

I already read through a previous topic on this issue: viewtopic.php?f=590&t=35274

Unfortunately, none of the advice appeared to help me. I just plugged up my new Neo 2 and thought I'd give the premium subscription a shot. Video is far too jerky and choppy to use for a workout. The problem persists regardless of the speed I'm riding at. And particularly at slower cycling speeds I don't seem to progress forward through the video at a reasonable rate. It is like there are segments of my effort just being cut out and thrown away or I'm riding a child's tricycle. 4 to 8 fps.

I'm running a 12 thread 8700 processor and a 1080 ti GPU with videos downloaded to a dedicated SSD. Computer power isn't an issue. Firmware on Neo 2 has been updated. Using the latest TDA of course. Also connecting via bluetooth. Any idea of what is going on here? I'm not having issues across any other software like Zwift. Help!

*Edit* Actually, my cadence across both programs isn't working correctly. In TDA, it jumps to 260 when I'm doing about 75. In Zwift, it just stays at 0 mostly but bounces around to inaccurate numbers like 30 or over 100. I'm seeing many posts over the past few years of users reporting the issue even when using ANT+. Tacx just recently "officially announced" the issue in a public statement like it is new news or something: https://support.zwift.com/en_us/tacx-sm ... -S1kXRyZBX

Did I make a mistake in buying this product? I can't find a bike shop for the life of me that deals with Tacx. Is this why?

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Re: Choppy Video and little forward progress

Post by mcorn » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:40 am

Have you tried other Tacx programs or mobile apps to see if it continues?

You might have a trainer problem, but it sounds like it could be wireless communication between your PC and the brake.

For BT, be sure you are not trying to connect the trainer to any other BT devices other than the PC.

For ANT+, it might help to try a USB extension cable to get the transmitter closer to the brake.

For assistance, you can contact support@tacx.com

The other post that you reference involves someone with a much more modest PC than yours.

FlyingEagle
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Re: Choppy Video and little forward progress

Post by FlyingEagle » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:58 am

I figured it out! What a relief. For anyone else who runs into the same thing - perhaps this will help. I bought a TV just for this application. I failed to activate 'Gaming Mode' on the TV which enables a faster refresh rate of 60Hz when receiving signal from a PC. Because of this, the TV was stuck at 30 Hz which I guess was creating a feedback loop with the PC since it was transmitting at 60Hz and was causing micro-stutter issues with the app. So, make sure to activate your TV's equivalent of "gaming mode".

So excited to dive into these scenic rides now! :)

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Re: Choppy Video and little forward progress

Post by mcorn » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:24 pm

FlyingEagle wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:58 am
I figured it out! What a relief. For anyone else who runs into the same thing - perhaps this will help. I bought a TV just for this application. I failed to activate 'Gaming Mode' on the TV which enables a faster refresh rate of 60Hz when receiving signal from a PC. Because of this, the TV was stuck at 30 Hz which I guess was creating a feedback loop with the PC since it was transmitting at 60Hz and was causing micro-stutter issues with the app. So, make sure to activate your TV's equivalent of "gaming mode".

So excited to dive into these scenic rides now! :)
That is interesting. Perhaps if you had switched your PC's video card to 30 Hz, it would have been okay. When I first got my 4K TV, the PC's video rate was set to 30Hz. I later changed it to 60 Hz, but the videos played without any problem either way. TV's will often auto-switch the rate as long as it is within the range the TV will handle.

I don't think this would have anything to do with cadence. Do you still have cadence problems?

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Re: Choppy Video and little forward progress

Post by Edgarini » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:16 am

FlyingEagle wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:58 am
So excited to dive into these scenic rides now! :)
Ride on brotha' :)

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Re: Choppy Video and little forward progress

Post by FlyingEagle » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:50 am

mcorn wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:24 pm

I don't think this would have anything to do with cadence. Do you still have cadence problems?
You know what, the issue isn't resolved at all. It was, but now it's not. Everything was buttery smooth (glass-like) and I was able to get 2-3 perfect rides completed over a week before loading up the app today and running into the same problem again. The videos have returned to stuttering, enough to make me sick to my stomach within a minute.

I've done extensive troubleshooting including taking the TV out of the mix entirely. I brought in a second, new, even faster computer consisting of the 9900k along with the rest of the companion hardware that goes with it. To no avail.

There was a new firmware update released and I saw that today. I hoped it would fix the issue, but it didn't. At this point, I'm having the issue across two different computers. The only thing I can't troubleshoot is if the Neo can hold multiple bluetooth connections and one of my neighbors decided to pair with it. There is no sync button on the device that I'm aware of to prevent such a thing.

Any other suggestions on what I might try?

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Re: Choppy Video and little forward progress

Post by FlyingEagle » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:30 am

The only thing I can see as a problem is the TDA app itself. I don't think it is playing well with Windows or perhaps the latest Nvidia drivers. I can play a Tacx video in VLC player outside of the TDA app and can get extremely smooth playback as expected. Upon launching TDA and starting a ride, the same video that I left playing in VLC player will now be playing at a different framerate. It won't be stuttering and choppy, but it is clearly missing about a quarter to half of it's frames which is a discernible drop in quality. Why should that be happening? Why should TDA be influencing the playback of a video in an external program like VLC? Makes no sense to me.

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Re: Choppy Video and little forward progress

Post by FlyingEagle » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:02 am

Hard to believe nobody else has had this issue and posted about it. Buuut apparently, TDA is critically dependent on vertical sync. It won't work well with any other option except that, which is kind of a bummer. I think it is pretty poor design practice to have the app referencing an external variable like refresh rate when performing internal calculations for things like movement.

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Re: Choppy Video and little forward progress

Post by Alex Masalovich » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:01 am

FlyingEagle wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:30 am
I can play a Tacx video in VLC player outside of the TDA app and can get extremely smooth playback as expected. Upon launching TDA and starting a ride, the same video that I left playing in VLC player will now be playing at a different framerate.
TDA has a total dependence on the Internet connection. This is one of the main shortcomings of this application (but there are still many others). Whether the Internet connection is lost during a ride can be found in the application log. Where are the logs, I have no idea, sorry. No one has ever reported this here.
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Re: Choppy Video and little forward progress

Post by Tacx Video Production » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:17 pm

Alex Masalovich wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:01 am
FlyingEagle wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:30 am
I can play a Tacx video in VLC player outside of the TDA app and can get extremely smooth playback as expected. Upon launching TDA and starting a ride, the same video that I left playing in VLC player will now be playing at a different framerate.
TDA has a total dependence on the Internet connection. This is one of the main shortcomings of this application (but there are still many others). Whether the Internet connection is lost during a ride can be found in the application log. Where are the logs, I have no idea, sorry. No one has ever reported this here.
Not when cycling Alex, you need internet only to get the map display & see other riders (oh & the license check)...when cycling your internet can be turned off.

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Re: Choppy Video and little forward progress

Post by mcorn » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:55 pm

I have not experienced the video playback problems reported here. Frankly, if this was happening on a widespread basis, there would be tons of similar reports. It is very odd. I would recommend contacting support@tacx.com and sending TDA log files.

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Re: Choppy Video and little forward progress

Post by Alex Masalovich » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:29 pm

Maybe I misunderstand the Dutch language, but here is a case where the temporary loss of the Internet connection affected video playback:
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=35559
gisteren morgen tijdens training op de Glossglockner south bleef de film hangen. Bleef dan ook op de heling verder gaan waar deze op stond op het moment dat film bleef hangen. Verspringt dan op eens een kilometer verder. Dit gebeurt vooral tijdens de afdalingen alsof de software niet kan volgen. Dit was met mijn vortex trainer. In namiddag mijn Neo ontvangen, maar op de eerste training bleef het probleem aanwezig. Zo erg dat het niet mogelijk training op die manier af te werken. Voor beide trainers is de software up to date. Beide trainers zijn in de app verbonden zoals tacx het voorschrijft. Bij de Neo heb ik nog een GPS ride afgewerkt New York central park. Hierbij wilde film/kaart niet laden en reed ik de rit met een grijs scherm. Laatste tijd veel problemen met TDA en van tacx zelf weinig tot geen oplossingen.
Translated by Google:
Yesterday morning during training on the Glossglockner south the film continued to hang. Therefore continued to go on the healing where it stood at the moment that film stuck. Then jumps a mile further. This happens especially during the descents as if the software can not follow. This was with my vortex trainer. Received my Neo in the afternoon, but the problem remained at the first training session. So bad that it is not possible to finish training that way. The software is up to date for both trainers. Both trainers are connected in the app as tacx prescribes. At the Neo I have finished a GPS ride New York central park. The film / card did not want to load and I drove the ride with a gray screen. Lately, many problems with TDA and tacx themselves have little or no solutions.
The answer from the support:
Bedankt voor de terugkoppeling.
We hebben de log bestanden door genomen en zien de volgende melding:

2019-01-07 19:47:11.245 +01:00 | � | 00001A6B | ErrorExtensions.swift:4 | The connection has timed out unexpectedly.
2019-01-07 20:04:03.077 +01:00 | 🔷 | 00001A6B | Connectivity.swift:22 | Connectivity: internetUnavailable

Dit betekend dat de Tacx Desktop app de verbinding met het internet heeft erloren
We vermoeden dat je gebruik maakt van een Wifi verbinding.
De Tacx Desktop app heeft een stabiele internet verbinding nodig.
Zou je misschien internet via de kabel willen gebruiken, dit zal het probleem moeten oplossen.
Excuses voor het ongemak.
Translated by Google:
Thanks for the feedback.
We have taken the log files and see the following message:

2019-01-07 19:47:11.245 +01: 00 | ⠌ | 00001A6B | ErrorExtensions.swift: 4 | The connection has timed out unexpectedly.
2019-01-07 20:04:03.077 +01: 00 | ðŸ "· |. 00001A6B | Connectivity.swift: 22 | Connectivity: internetUnavailable

This means that the Tacx Desktop app has the connection with the internet erloren
We suspect that you are using a WiFi connection.
The Tacx Desktop app needs a stable internet connection.
You might want to use the internet via the cable, this will have to solve the problem.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
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Re: Choppy Video and little forward progress

Post by mcorn » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:57 pm

Alex-

Like it or not, TDA is not going away and TTS is not here to stay.

Personally, I would like less Internet dependencies in TDA as the Cloud functions are too slow and cumbersome at times. I suspect they will improve that aspect of the software. But I do not find that any more irritating than the slowness in startup and shutdown of TTS and the constant news bugs and fixes that were required to keep TTS functioning. TTS had turned into a bit of a clunky mess in my view. It would have been nice to have a simple video RLV player program.

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Re: Choppy Video and little forward progress

Post by Alex Masalovich » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:31 pm

mcorn wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:57 pm
Like it or not, TDA is not going away and TTS is not here to stay.
I like this. But I very much fear (not hope) that Tacx will soon consider TDA unsuccessful and will return to ТТS4.
I am fully satisfied with the current TTS4.
TDA is some stub from ТТS4.
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Re: Choppy Video and little forward progress

Post by ms6073 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:12 pm

Although I am only using the workout functionality and have not subscribed for videos, with the introduction of the Neo Smart Bike, I suspect TDA is doing very well despite our nay-saying. What would be great is if Tacx could find a way to make the Magnum treadmill more affordable for the masses as that just begs for hosting group rides in TDA.

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Re: Choppy Video and little forward progress

Post by Alex Masalovich » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:19 pm

ms6073 wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:12 pm
Although I am only using the workout functionality and have not subscribed for videos, with the introduction of the Neo Smart Bike, I suspect TDA is doing very well despite our nay-saying. What would be great is if Tacx could find a way to make the Magnum treadmill more affordable for the masses as that just begs for hosting group rides in TDA.
By the way, in the photo, as I understand it, the TCA is used, not the TDA. And the Magnum is the same fiasco as the TDA, with a speed limit of 30 km/h and tedious noise:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BpSTBQvCuiZ/
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Re: Choppy Video and little forward progress

Post by mcorn » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:28 pm

If you want a high end not attached trainer, look at Video Reality's Lynx. It is expensive, but very robust and a very unique design. It's main current drawback is it is ANT+ only. My guess is BT will get added at some point. Wish I could afford one.

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Re: Choppy Video and little forward progress

Post by ms6073 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:48 am

Alex Masalovich wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:19 pm
By the way, in the photo, as I understand it, the TCA is used, not the TDA. And the Magnum is the same fiasco as the TDA, with a speed limit of 30 km/h and tedious noise: https://www.instagram.com/p/BpSTBQvCuiZ/
Noise did not seem to be a problem for him: Edvald Boasson-Hagen used cycling treadmill for monster six-hour Zwift training ride :mrgreen:
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Re: Choppy Video and little forward progress

Post by Lunatix » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:50 pm

Seeing how OP's issue is not fixed.

A problem that we are aware of currently is the factor of G-sync/freesync desynced refresh rates. Try and make sure every G-sync / Freesync enabled software or hardware is taken out of your setup to do a final test.

We use the internal films & tv app "player" (with custom code around it but the core is the same) to play videos.

The only case we heard about that sounded like your description had a Non G-sync monitor but had hardware that enabled it in the background and applied it without it being visible to the user. This was found by using extensive tools from Nvidia itself and disabled by the user. Without looking at the pc myself i couldn't really help you out more atm - but also in the standard Nvidia tooling you could look for G-sync and how to disable it for a starter.

Hope it helps.

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