So Far So Good

https://www.microsoft.com/nl-be/store/p ... 40kx?rtc=1

Moderators: malfukt, mcorn, Nasz, Lunatix

tiredlegs
Posts: 158
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:15 am

Re: So Far So Good

Post by tiredlegs » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:39 am

I have an ageing i7 that must be pushing 8-9 years old and it runs TDA wihout any problems whatsoever. The video is completely smooth compared to TTS4 and is always in sync.

bob190
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:58 pm

Re: So Far So Good

Post by bob190 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:07 am

Thanks for the tips mcorn .. I will check on the codecs.

Also the only thing connected via Bluetooth would be the trainer and a Wahoo Tickr HR strap.

The PC doesn’t have integrated Bluetooth, so I am using an Asus USB BT dongle.

mcorn
Moderator
Posts: 7116
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:55 pm
Location: USA, Bellingham, Washington

Re: So Far So Good

Post by mcorn » Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:19 pm

bob190 wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:07 am
Thanks for the tips mcorn .. I will check on the codecs.

Also the only thing connected via Bluetooth would be the trainer and a Wahoo Tickr HR strap.

The PC doesn’t have integrated Bluetooth, so I am using an Asus USB BT dongle.
Try not using the Wahoo HR just to see if it makes a difference. You can also try turning off the map widget to see if it helps. I found the map widget used quite a bit of PC resources, at least in earlier versions.

LeeRobbo
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:59 am

Re: So Far So Good

Post by LeeRobbo » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:26 pm

Interesting comment on the codecs and FFDshow not required for TTS4 on Win10... What are the prerequisites for TTS4 now?
I only have an old CD of TTS4 and every time I do a fresh install I have to go through the usual 'extra' software requirements, then update.
UPDATE: Just found the web-installer for the latest version... sorted :)

Also, I prefer the interface for TDA rather than TTS4 but wonder why you can't use the TTS movies in TDA?
Instead of streaming films why not allow pre-downloading of the movie just like BigRingVR?
Surely that would reduce your bandwidth massively and save Tacx a fortune... that it doesn't have to pass on to the consumer?

I'm at an impasse at the moment, lots of different vendors vying for cyclist's Turbo time... but which way to go :?: :?
Genius Smart
Xeon X5670 2.93GHz / 24GB DDR3 1333 Ram
NVidia GeForce GTX 970 / 120 + 250 840 pro SSD
Win10 64 / TTS4 / 42" LEDTV
Bushido T1980 (sold)
i-Magic (sold)

User avatar
Spiix
Developer
Posts: 566
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:09 pm

Re: So Far So Good

Post by Spiix » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:52 pm

LeeRobbo wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:26 pm
Also, I prefer the interface for TDA rather than TTS4 but wonder why you can't use the TTS movies in TDA?
Instead of streaming films why not allow pre-downloading of the movie just like BigRingVR?
TDA is a different product than TTS, that's why old films won't work.
It's like your old car's leather seats won't fit your new car. If you want leather seats again in your new car you're going to have to buy that option again.

TDA doesn't stream films (yet). You have to pre-download the films before you can ride them.
Streaming them might be possible some day, it's something we've talked about.

mcorn
Moderator
Posts: 7116
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:55 pm
Location: USA, Bellingham, Washington

Re: So Far So Good

Post by mcorn » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:37 pm

LeeRobbo wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:26 pm
Interesting comment on the codecs and FFDshow not required for TTS4 on Win10... What are the prerequisites for TTS4 now?
I only have an old CD of TTS4 and every time I do a fresh install I have to go through the usual 'extra' software requirements, then update.
UPDATE: Just found the web-installer for the latest version... sorted :)
Not sure if the web-installer will still install ffdshow. If it does, remove it after you are done installing TTS4 and any udpates.

Meridaman
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:59 pm

Re: So Far So Good

Post by Meridaman » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:57 pm

Spiix wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:52 pm
TDA is a different product than TTS, that's why old films won't work.
It's like your old car's leather seats won't fit your new car. If you want leather seats again in your new car you're going to have to buy that option again.
I think that is a poor analogy as all your previous software was backward compatible with the media but does highlight what I consider an issue.

Since I got a Tacx Fortius Trainer in 2010, I have spent over £2,000 on films but the value of that investment is now much reduced and is dependant on a future Windows update not breaking TTS4 and Tacx deciding it is uneconomical to patch TTS when the revenue from films for it has plumeted. It has been said they will support it, but for how long as TTS4 has had a rather troubled past when it has been the latest software. I do know I won't be buying anymore films for it unless they are discounted, i.e. end of line sale price.

When software is updated, it is normal to give existing users a discount on the new software to encourage us to move to the latest version, how would this work with changing to a monthly/annual subscrition? I know I won't be happy if I have to pay the same as someone who is new to Tacx, especially if TTS4 no longer works.

Without knowing the cost of the monthly vs annual subscrition we don't know how they will compare but I would expect most people do 90% of the trainer usage in a 4-5 month period so how many would subscribe annually if it costs more than subscribing for say 6 months. I know I wouldn't.

As I have since changed my trainer to a Neo I was going to try TDA but I couldn't as I don't have a USB Bluetooth dongle. I will also have to buy a Bluetooth keyboard as the handlebar controller I use with the Neo won't work. Why have Tacx made it easier for me to try their competitors software than there own?

I don't regret how much I've spent on the films as I much prefer the "Buy and keep" model than the "Subscription" model and right now I'd say I'm most likely to stick with TTS4 while it still works and then look elsewhere.

mcorn
Moderator
Posts: 7116
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:55 pm
Location: USA, Bellingham, Washington

Re: So Far So Good

Post by mcorn » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:37 pm

Meridaman wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:57 pm

As I have since changed my trainer to a Neo I was going to try TDA but I couldn't as I don't have a USB Bluetooth dongle. I will also have to buy a Bluetooth keyboard as the handlebar controller I use with the Neo won't work.
You can purchase a USB2 Bluetooth dongle for around $4 and a small Bluetooth numeric pad for $15 to $20. The pad really isn't needed to use TDA, unless changing widgets on the fly is important to you. So, I think adding Bluetooth capability to use TDA is a very, very, small financial consideration.

But I think you do make some good points about your investment in TTS videos.

User avatar
wasupwitdat1
Posts: 178
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:42 am
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Re: So Far So Good

Post by wasupwitdat1 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:21 pm

As much as I hate a lot of things about Tacx, namely Support, I feel the need to say Tacx has not been totally unreasonable about leaving behind the old to bring in the new. I had Fortius and a bunch of videos and the program worked as long as I disconnected my PC from the internet. I was still able to ride the RLV's which was good because most of them cost me around $60 each. TTS has had more issues than any other product I have ever used but with TTS4 I was able to transfer some old videos of my collection and use with that program. And I have purchased more videos since at lower prices to boot. I sold the Fortius trainer and some videos for a fair price I was happy with. I hope TTS4, now working pretty damn good for me, continues to work and end it days in pretty much the same way. I doubt that I will get TDA because I am just to old now and I like TTS4 mainly for it's VR terrains and I can ride against my saved rides from the past when I was stronger and faster. It's all I need now. TDA has a long way to go yet so way to early for a lot of people to decide and throw money at it. I think what will make TDA interesting is if Tacx get some type of overlay to display where the opponents are in a multiplayer environment. An overlay with a name attached would be awesome. But I don't totally agree that just because we have been with Tacx for some time that it qualifies us for a discounted price on TDA. That seems different than when TTS1,2,&3 turned out to be failures. TDA is a new thing which you have to decide if you want it or not. Those are just my thoughts.
NEO W2017
TTS4 4.22.7.0
Sony 49X900E 4K TV
Gigabyte G1 Sniper M3 Mobo
Intel i7 3770 @ 3.9 GHz
16Gb Ram @ 1600 MHz
Nvidia GTX 980 4095 GDDR5 Mem
Samsung 840 Pro 256G Hard Drive
Corsair 860 PSU
Windows 7 64bit Home Premium

User avatar
Tacx Video Production
Posts: 3663
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 11:49 pm
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: So Far So Good

Post by Tacx Video Production » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:23 pm

TTS4 is not ending this winter but as already noted above I think one day it will obviously end as in support for it working on future OS etc, If you keep it on the same hardware there is no reason why you can not just keep using it for many years to come..you can ride all the rides you own when ever you like & not pay a cent more for that. There are many many users out there still using Fortius Software from over a decade ago now.

For the last years there have been close to zero new features added to the RLV component of TTS4. The development for this part ended years ago for Tacx when it became obvious that it was incredibly hard to add anything without breaking other parts. The only advancements have been on the video quality side. So in effect the fact TDA is there has no effect on TTS4 development because it already stopped in about 2008.

So really its just a case of support & new rides for TTS4. We will be converting new rides that are seen to be popular in TDA into TTS4 capable routes also, I can see the Publish to TTS4 button right here!

mcorn
Moderator
Posts: 7116
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:55 pm
Location: USA, Bellingham, Washington

Re: So Far So Good

Post by mcorn » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:23 pm

Tacx Video Production wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:23 pm
If you keep it on the same hardware there is no reason why you can not just keep using it for many years to come..you can ride all the rides you own when ever you like & not pay a cent more for that.
That's not exactly the case. If Tacx does not continuously issue maintenance updates for TTS, then normal Windows updates will likely render TTS inoperable. This already happened in the last year with Windows 10. Until Tacx issued new updates, many users of TTS could no longer use videos. This went on for a number of months.

User avatar
Tacx Video Production
Posts: 3663
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 11:49 pm
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: So Far So Good

Post by Tacx Video Production » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:36 pm

mcorn wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:23 pm
Tacx Video Production wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:23 pm
If you keep it on the same hardware there is no reason why you can not just keep using it for many years to come..you can ride all the rides you own when ever you like & not pay a cent more for that.
That's not exactly the case. If Tacx does not continuously issue maintenance updates for TTS, then normal Windows updates will likely render TTS inoperable. This already happened in the last year with Windows 10. Until Tacx issued new updates, many users of TTS could no longer use videos. This went on for a number of months.
There are many users that just a PC or laptop they use for Tacx software, if in some years from now Tacx decide to stop support & you don't update it or have it plugged into the internet & keep it away from teenagers there is no reason why you cant keep training with it for years, just as there are some out there still using Fortius software from a decade ago. When your hardware becomes old just unplug the internet cable..mothball the thing for the winters.

mcorn
Moderator
Posts: 7116
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:55 pm
Location: USA, Bellingham, Washington

Re: So Far So Good

Post by mcorn » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:20 pm

Tacx Video Production wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:36 pm

There are many users that just a PC or laptop they use for Tacx software, if in some years from now Tacx decide to stop support & you don't update it or have it plugged into the internet & keep it away from teenagers there is no reason why you cant keep training with it for years, just as there are some out there still using Fortius software from a decade ago. When your hardware becomes old just unplug the internet cable..mothball the thing for the winters.
I think you are proposing a solution that is not particularly suited for typical users. Even with the Fortius software, which I occasionally use, you can still use it with current versions of Windows (as long as it is a 32-bit version).

And the real problem that your solution does not deal with is a user, even one with a PC dedicated to TTS, is that Windows will make updates they are not aware of it and before they know it the PC will no longer run TTS. Once that happens it is very difficult for the average user to roll back the PC to a Windows version that is compatible with TTS.

User avatar
Tacx Video Production
Posts: 3663
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 11:49 pm
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: So Far So Good

Post by Tacx Video Production » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:30 pm

mcorn wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:20 pm
Tacx Video Production wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:36 pm

There are many users that just a PC or laptop they use for Tacx software, if in some years from now Tacx decide to stop support & you don't update it or have it plugged into the internet & keep it away from teenagers there is no reason why you cant keep training with it for years, just as there are some out there still using Fortius software from a decade ago. When your hardware becomes old just unplug the internet cable..mothball the thing for the winters.
I think you are proposing a solution that is not particularly suited for typical users. Even with the Fortius software, which I occasionally use, you can still use it with current versions of Windows (as long as it is a 32-bit version).

And the real problem that your solution does not deal with is a user, even one with a PC dedicated to TTS, is that Windows will make updates they are not aware of it and before they know it the PC will no longer run TTS. Once that happens it is very difficult for the average user to roll back the PC to a Windows version that is compatible with TTS.
Well I think its all hypothetical for the moment, you just also said you have Fortius running still, its hard to know if TTS4 will need some update in years to come to keep it working on windows 15 or whatever. The main issue is right now nothing is going to happen with TTS4 as far as I know..I think Tacx will leave it until it becomes pointless to keep going..But while Tacx is still selling quantities of rides it will keep supporting it. I think there will be a sizable userbase for it for some years still & we will be servicing this market with some cool routes taken from the new TDA collection

mcorn
Moderator
Posts: 7116
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:55 pm
Location: USA, Bellingham, Washington

Re: So Far So Good

Post by mcorn » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:07 pm

Tacx Video Production wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:30 pm
its hard to know if TTS4 will need some update in years to come to keep it working on windows 15 or whatever. The main issue is right now nothing is going to happen with TTS4 as far as I know..I think Tacx will leave it until it becomes pointless to keep going..But while Tacx is still selling quantities of rides it will keep supporting it. I think there will be a sizable userbase for it for some years still & we will be servicing this market with some cool routes taken from the new TDA collection
You make some good points. I think it is a ways off.

User avatar
wasupwitdat1
Posts: 178
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:42 am
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Re: So Far So Good

Post by wasupwitdat1 » Mon Dec 25, 2017 6:07 pm

Is anybody else thinking what I'm thinking? That maybe it is to soon for Tacx to be coming out with TDA? How many people are still using operating systems other than Windows 10? Microsoft has extended their support for Windows 7 most likely because most businesses are running it and it would be to costly for them to update. Shouldn't Tacx have timed a new software program release to coincide with the hardware and software the masses currently use? I think this new offering from Tacx will be adopted very slowly based on the general feelings mentioned in this thread so far. As for how long TTS4 should be supported, I hope for at least 4 or 5 more years, and I also hope they don't try to force us to upgrade to TDA. TDA is okay but so is TTS4 and I am not ready to ditch perfectly good hardware and software yet.
NEO W2017
TTS4 4.22.7.0
Sony 49X900E 4K TV
Gigabyte G1 Sniper M3 Mobo
Intel i7 3770 @ 3.9 GHz
16Gb Ram @ 1600 MHz
Nvidia GTX 980 4095 GDDR5 Mem
Samsung 840 Pro 256G Hard Drive
Corsair 860 PSU
Windows 7 64bit Home Premium

User avatar
Tacx Video Production
Posts: 3663
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 11:49 pm
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: So Far So Good

Post by Tacx Video Production » Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:22 pm

It’s not too early if anything it’s a bit late. Tacx make a lot more per customer via TTS4 if they regularly buy rides so there is no incentive to force anyone that’s already a Tacx TTS4 or Tablet customer to subscription. The goal is to make Tacx RLV affordable to the mass of users that find It too expensive, to be able to release rides inside hours of filming, increase the quality & to be able improve the feature list. TTS4 has been built on code that stretches back over nearly a decade of various developers. It’s really hard to do anything other then cosmetic changes. Development of the RLV component of TTS4 stopped years ago & the fact TDA is there will only result in a broader choice of hopefully quality routes to put into the TTS4 collection

User avatar
wasupwitdat1
Posts: 178
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:42 am
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Re: So Far So Good

Post by wasupwitdat1 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:06 pm

Tacx Video Production wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:22 pm
It’s not too early if anything it’s a bit late. Tacx make a lot more per customer via TTS4 if they regularly buy rides so there is no incentive to force anyone that’s already a Tacx TTS4 or Tablet customer to subscription. The goal is to make Tacx RLV affordable to the mass of users that find It too expensive, to be able to release rides inside hours of filming, increase the quality & to be able improve the feature list. TTS4 has been built on code that stretches back over nearly a decade of various developers. It’s really hard to do anything other then cosmetic changes. Development of the RLV component of TTS4 stopped years ago & the fact TDA is there will only result in a broader choice of hopefully quality routes to put into the TTS4 collection
This opinion coming from a person with clearly something to gain from TDA. :wink:
NEO W2017
TTS4 4.22.7.0
Sony 49X900E 4K TV
Gigabyte G1 Sniper M3 Mobo
Intel i7 3770 @ 3.9 GHz
16Gb Ram @ 1600 MHz
Nvidia GTX 980 4095 GDDR5 Mem
Samsung 840 Pro 256G Hard Drive
Corsair 860 PSU
Windows 7 64bit Home Premium

User avatar
Tacx Video Production
Posts: 3663
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 11:49 pm
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: So Far So Good

Post by Tacx Video Production » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:05 pm

wasupwitdat1 wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:06 pm

This opinion coming from a person with clearly something to gain from TDA. :wink:
Yes & no, There are two markets here

Customer A = The TTS4 user
Customer B = The potential new customer that may look at the huge upfront cost of TTS4 or the per ride cost of a Tacx RLV & head off to Zwift, Kinomaps, BKool etc.

I personally make more money from Customer A & so does Tacx... We obviously both make Zero from Customer B if they have decided riding RLV via TTS4 is too much money. Tacx feel that there are probably more customer B's out there then customer A's hence TDA exist's.

The other reason was TTS4 is now fairy elderly, it cant handle any new features or it will collapse

Image

User avatar
wasupwitdat1
Posts: 178
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:42 am
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Re: So Far So Good

Post by wasupwitdat1 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:47 pm

Put me in the customer A category. I am aging and there is really no good reason for me to keep throwing money at trainer technology. No matter how hard or how much I ride my level of strength is going backwards. Within the next decade I will probably not even be riding a bike more than occasionally and 10 to 15 miles at a time. I have had a good life cycling and I get saddened when I think about it's end. But there is always gaming. Your point is well understood when you spell it out like you did. I'm sure Tacx does spend some time on research and marketing so they most likely know better than I where TDA is going. I think a good question though is how interactive is real life video training verses virtual reality training. Today's technologies are geared more towards interactive and social platforms. That's why I like VR better than video because I get more of a sense of racing another being verses just looking at some pretty scenery. With the high quality video hardware I have Tacx's VR is the best, it blows Zwift out of the water. I really hate to see that go away.
NEO W2017
TTS4 4.22.7.0
Sony 49X900E 4K TV
Gigabyte G1 Sniper M3 Mobo
Intel i7 3770 @ 3.9 GHz
16Gb Ram @ 1600 MHz
Nvidia GTX 980 4095 GDDR5 Mem
Samsung 840 Pro 256G Hard Drive
Corsair 860 PSU
Windows 7 64bit Home Premium

Post Reply

Return to “Tacx Desktop app (TDA)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest