Tacx T1946 Motor Brake locked up

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richos
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:21 am
Location: USA, Eagan, MN

Tacx T1946 Motor Brake locked up

Post by richos » Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:04 pm

My six-year old Tacx T1946 Motor Brake suddenly locked up during a training session yesterday. It could not be spun at all, and now that I have it completely off, it still cannot be spun. I did put on a second motor brake I had on hand, and it spun with not problem.

My question is this: can I remove the cover plate on the side the locked cylinder is on? It looks like this is almost possible, except that there seem to be two screws coming from the inside that are still holding the plate on.

Or is there any point in doing this? My hope/theory is that I might determine what has seized up, "fix" it, unless it's in the motor(?)

Is there another solution to this problem, short of junking this motor brake, and buying a new one?

Fortunately, the second motor brake will work for now, but it too has an issue: it is making the rattling noise that indicates the plate is loose and slipping under pressure. But that's a whole different issue, and I will soon fix this by re-gluing the plate on, much as I did a year or so ago with the brake that just locked up.
-Rich of Eagan, MN

mcorn
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Re: Tacx T1946 Motor Brake locked up

Post by mcorn » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:34 pm

If the brake itself is seized up while completely disconnected from everything, then there is some kind of mechanical issue inside the brake. You can separate the spindle side from the motor side by loosening the screws and then loosening a set screw that holds the rotor to the spindle. You will need to get inside to see exactly what is causing the seizing. Until you do that, it will be hard to assess repairability.

I think the motor is still available here in the US for less than $200, which is not too bad compared to the price of the power supply, which costs lots more.

A few years ago, Tacx released a Version 2 of 110 volt units. Not sure which of the two you have, but you cannot mix version 1 and version 2 motors and power supplies.

richos
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:21 am
Location: USA, Eagan, MN

Re: Tacx T1946 Motor Brake locked up

Post by richos » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:56 pm

My Tacx was purchased in late 2007, and the motor I'm trying to fix came with it. I have never replaced the power supply. I do have a second motor which I have also used. Both motors are labeled "Type t1941", as is the new one I just ordered. That said, I WOULD SURE HOPE I DON'T HAVE TO GET A NEW POWER SUPPLY.

When I finally pulled the motor apart, and looked at the roller, it had a strip of what looked like fused metal as though it fused with the coils, so I sanded this off as best I could, more or less smoothed out the surface of this drum, and re-inserted it, after which it seemed to spin just fine, until I fully screwed the cover back on. Then it was like I would tighten the three screws and it would lock up again, as though the plate I screwed on was no longer aligned right. I fiddled with this for about an hour, loosening screws, tightening screws,trying to make sure the plate was fully seated, etc. Still wouldn't spin anywhere as nicely as my second motor. Maybe the drum isn't smooth enough, but I doubt that's the problem.
-Rich of Eagan, MN

mcorn
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Re: Tacx T1946 Motor Brake locked up

Post by mcorn » Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:53 am

I think you could be in the time frame when version 2 came out. I would send an email to support@tacx.com and give them the serial number of your power supply. That will indicate whether it is version 1 or version 2.

The problem that version 2 addressed was it was almost impossible to get the speed of version 1 over about 27 mph, even if you were on a steep downhill. Version 2 units allow you go get up to about 36 mph. So based on that, you should also be able to tell if you had version 1 or version 2.

Perhaps the motor overheated and the plastic ends have distorted and caused the bearings to no longer be aligned. The rotor has quite a close fit inside the stator coils. If things do not fit correctly, there is not a lot you can do to correct it.

richos
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:21 am
Location: USA, Eagan, MN

Re: Tacx T1946 Motor Brake locked up

Post by richos » Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:49 pm

mcorn wrote:I think you could be in the time frame when version 2 came out. I would send an email to support@tacx.com and give them the serial number of your power supply. That will indicate whether it is version 1 or version 2.

The problem that version 2 addressed was it was almost impossible to get the speed of version 1 over about 27 mph, even if you were on a steep downhill. Version 2 units allow you go get up to about 36 mph. So based on that, you should also be able to tell if you had version 1 or version 2.

Perhaps the motor overheated and the plastic ends have distorted and caused the bearings to no longer be aligned. The rotor has quite a close fit inside the stator coils. If things do not fit correctly, there is not a lot you can do to correct it.
1) I have sent email to support@tacx.com with the serial number of my power supply--I would guess that this is not an issue, but I will report on what they tell me later. I did mention that I have exceeded 30 mph on rare occasions, on a steep downhill while pedaling hard. Not quite like real life. Normally on the steepest downhills, I would coast at about 25 mph, and pedaling hard to actually produce a watt reading would get me into the high 20s, so I'd wonder if this is the "almost impossible" you're talking about?
2) My motor brake simply locked up tight one hour and 45 minutes into the Tre Cime di Laveredo DVD. The roller could not be turned at all, and when I took it apart, the reason appeared to be what we see in the photo.
IMAG1048a.jpg
3) Once I removed the rotor, sanded it off as best I could, I then determined that it is extremely hard if not impossible to get it to turn within the very close fit you talk about. Tightening the three (wood) screws on the cover plate such that the close fit will not be an issue appears to be beyond my technical ability, but I may keep trying.
-Rich of Eagan, MN

mcorn
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Re: Tacx T1946 Motor Brake locked up

Post by mcorn » Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:20 pm

There may be an issue with the stator coils that are causing interference. The coils are on the inside of the casing. Is the stator all messed up as well?

From your description, it sounds to me like you have version 1. With version 1, it takes a lot of work to get into the high 20's. As said before, you can't mix version 1 and version 2 components. My guess is most motors being sold today are version 2, although I have seen stuff come up on eBay that was version 1. Often the sellers don't know or don't tell you which versions they are selling.

richos
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:21 am
Location: USA, Eagan, MN

Re: Tacx T1946 Motor Brake locked up

Post by richos » Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:56 pm

mcorn wrote:There may be an issue with the stator coils that are causing interference. The coils are on the inside of the casing. Is the stator all messed up as well?

From your description, it sounds to me like you have version 1. With version 1, it takes a lot of work to get into the high 20's. As said before, you can't mix version 1 and version 2 components. My guess is most motors being sold today are version 2, although I have seen stuff come up on eBay that was version 1. Often the sellers don't know or don't tell you which versions they are selling.
Great. I've just ordered a new motor, and now I have to wonder what happens when I hook it up to my trainer. I would think my 2007 vintage components are "version 1". The replacement motor I bought a few years ago worked fine, and was no doubt version 1. The new one?

Are we certain we cannot mix version 1 and 2 components? Will I destroy/damage the new motor, the old power supply, or will it simply not work? Am I going to discover I need a new power supply, or just a version 1 motor? Can the Tacx people tell me what version the new motor is once I get it? (At what point am I going to want to buy a new trainer?)

To answer your question regarding the stator coils, it appeared to me they were not messed up, though you certainly would think so. I can now get the unit reassembled, and have it spin reasonably well, but not when I tighten the screws, let alone put it back on the trainer. There's just too little tolerance for even the slightest misalignment. Maybe I'll get it to work adequately, eventually, but I doubt it, and so far, at best, it never spins with the smoothness/lack of friction that the other motor does. The moral of the story seems to be that the motor is not meant to be ever disassembled, at least by an amateur. One clue is the use of wood type screws rather than machine screws, to hold the plate on.
-Rich of Eagan, MN

mcorn
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Re: Tacx T1946 Motor Brake locked up

Post by mcorn » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:33 pm

I've had these motors apart a number of times. As motors go, they are quite easy to take apart. The screws are typical self-tapping metal screws and work fine for the design. You do need to insure that all of the screws are tightened evenly to avoid distortion. I would loosen the screws on both ends of the motor and then attempt to tighten them gradually and evenly to keep the spindle turning freely. You may have distortion in the end pieces (perhaps from overheating) which is causing it to bind.

As far as the mixing of versions 1 and 2, not sure if it will cause damage, but the speeds will be completely off.

Did you receive any information from support@tacx.com on version number?

Probably your best resource here in the US is Rudy at Ochner's, which is one of the service centers. Rudy is very knowledgeable and helpful and could probably answer your questions. You can also contact QBP, the other service center. Contact infomation is on the Tacx website.

richos
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:21 am
Location: USA, Eagan, MN

Re: Tacx T1946 Motor Brake locked up - VERSIONS

Post by richos » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:50 pm

I posed this question to support@tacx.com :
The serial number of my T1946.50 Cosmos/Fortius 105-120W 60hz (300W) power supply is 46070894. I am wondering if that is version 1 or version 2 of this part. I have had this unit since it came with my original Tacx trainer purchase in late 2007...

Their answered clarified the version situation (bold emphasis mine):
Yes, there are 2 versions. If you order a new powerback you also need a new T1941 unit. So you need them both (T1949.50 and the T1946). Those are always combined together
So a T1946.50 and T1941 and the T1949.50 and T1946)
else it will not work


So what I ordered should be a "T1941 unit". (This seems not to have to do with the serial number.) Both of my old ones are T1941. What is a little scary is that the one I ordered is listed as a "T1946", but the picture shows it clearly as a T1941. Part of that scary business is that sellers may not be aware of the compatibility issues, or maybe it is assumed that the buyers are.
-Rich of Eagan, MN

mcorn
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Re: Tacx T1946 Motor Brake locked up

Post by mcorn » Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:11 pm

The problem is the motor does not have a serial number (not sure if it even has a part number), which is why my first response was to suggest you check with Tacx to see what you have. I think contacting Rudy at Ochsner would have probably have resulted in a little more direct help. The serial number of the power supply (the powerback) does tell you what version it is. Of couse, all of this stuff is no longer made by Tacx and the version 1 stopped being made after version 2 came out, so knowing what you are getting can be a problem.

richos
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:21 am
Location: USA, Eagan, MN

Re: Tacx T1946 Motor Brake locked up

Post by richos » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:58 pm

Just received my "Tacx New Fortis/Cosmos Resistance Roller Unit 110 volt" and it appears I'll have to return it. I ordered it prior to knowing this stuff about versions, and although the catalog said "T1946", the picture of it might have been the older version, as it did not have the additional "T1946 110V" sticker shown in my photo of the unit I ordered. Maybe there was a language problem with Tacx support in that they seemed to ignore my serial number question originally, but I'm going to assume that this additional sticker is how you tell the two versions apart(?)
Tacx Roller Unit.jpg
I will indeed contact Rudy at Ochsner now. Maybe he can find or direct me to an older version.

I will also see if I can get more specific information from Tacx support regarding the incompatibility of the two versions.
-Rich of Eagan, MN

mcorn
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Re: Tacx T1946 Motor Brake locked up

Post by mcorn » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:14 pm

They really are not compatible, so don't even waste your time on that issue.

The older version 1 motor is the same one that has always been used with the 220 volt systems. But in order to address the speed problems with the version 1 110 volts units, they had to redesign both the power supply and the motor. So, the motor used in the 220 volt systems might be available thought European suppliers.

Perhaps if you plead and beg, Rudy will find a way to help you. If there was any way you could get upgraded to version 2, you would find that it is a much better performing system, both in terms of top speed and smoothness. I actually thought the version 1 was pretty unsatisfactory.

richos
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:21 am
Location: USA, Eagan, MN

Re: Tacx T1946 Motor Brake locked up

Post by richos » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:16 am

I did talk to Rudy, and he did have the older version of roller unit, or motor brake, or whatever you call it, and said he'd sell me one for $150. But he pointed out that if my 6+ year old power adapter were to fail, I might be stuck with several used but unusable roller units. So I ordered a new version power adapter--with a warranty--from Rudy instead (at a very fair but still somewhat painful price).

Rudy said that my new T1949.50 power adapter would have a "T1946.50" sticker on it, with a "9" written over the "6". He remarked on the use of "T1946" for the new version of the roller unit, versus the "T1946.50" designation of the old version power adapter. So he cleared up pretty much all of my remaining confusion. Or maybe not.

No matter, I am looking forward to coasting down simulated steep downgrades at greater than 27 mph.
-Rich of Eagan, MN

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