Getting a new NEO today :) some Route questions please

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Portman
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:43 am

Getting a new NEO today :) some Route questions please

Post by Portman » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:13 pm

Hello everybody,

I will be happy to learn my options regarding riding in real (GPS) routes and Zwift. your help will be appreciated!!:)

1. If I would like to ride on the NEO a real ride that I have in my Garmin Connect log. Should I export it as GPX ? or use the " Export to Google Earth " ?
Then, I save it on desktop and import it by the TACX softawre ?

2. I understand that I can download various GPS rides, correct ? from where please

3. When I NEO such a GPS / street-view ride - Am I going to see the road ahead (real google view) on my screen ?

4. I understand that when riding an imported real route, I can decide what Power to use (can climb at any wattage I chose, like in real outdoor ride) - is that correct ?

5. I should get (download ? from where ?) the Google-earth plugin for that ?

6. Please, what are my other options for routes, Zwift (that I've never used yet) is one of them? any others?


Thanks a lot!

Portman

Does this work ?

Image




https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Y ... AWQBGgw8yM:

ttelmah
Posts: 649
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:13 pm
Location: UK

Re: Getting a new NEO today :) some Route questions please

Post by ttelmah » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:23 pm

You realise you need to buy the Google License to use this feature?.
The gradient you get will be a simulation of the real gradient. However you can elect to ride it as if the gradient was more or less using the Power Factor setting.
You have an overhead 'map' view, and then the up/down arrows on the handlebar controller allow you to switch to the street view.
If importing a ride from a GPS, the package imports normal .gpx files.
You do not need the plug-in, the code is included in the package.
For an imported ride it is worth using a package like 3D route builder and just slightly smoothing the ride.

thebigoneinfront
Posts: 2817
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: Ludwigshafen/Rhine, Germany

Re: Getting a new NEO today :) some Route questions please

Post by thebigoneinfront » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:03 pm

It may also be an idea to do without the Tacx Trainer Software and the Google license and use the Tacx Cycling App or the Tacx Training App and the Tacx Cloud for the time being. Tacx Cloud can import .gpx and convert it into a Workout for the Cycling or Training Apps. No map view or StreetView, though, but a cost-free option until we see what will become of GPS Rides in the Desktop App. (Desktop App needs Win 10, though, so without that TTS and Google license are the way to go if map view and StreetView are important.)

mcorn
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Re: Getting a new NEO today :) some Route questions please

Post by mcorn » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:13 pm

Even at its best, Street View is not very good.

Portman
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:43 am

Re: Getting a new NEO today :) some Route questions please

Post by Portman » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:13 pm

Thank you guys!!
Sorry it took me time to reply - computer crashed and getting the new one I had to organize work things first

Portman
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:43 am

Re: Getting a new NEO today :) some Route questions please

Post by Portman » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:34 pm

ttelmah wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:23 pm
You realise you need to buy the Google License to use this feature?.
The gradient you get will be a simulation of the real gradient. However you can elect to ride it as if the gradient was more or less using the Power Factor setting.
You have an overhead 'map' view, and then the up/down arrows on the handlebar controller allow you to switch to the street view.
If importing a ride from a GPS, the package imports normal .gpx files.
You do not need the plug-in, the code is included in the package.
For an imported ride it is worth using a package like 3D route builder and just slightly smoothing the ride.
Hi ttelmah,
As I wrote below, got the TTS and google license on a new computer.

Exported several GPXs from my Garmin log, and tried a ‘simple’ one today for the beginning.
The problem was that slope-percentages Fluctuated. (for example, in a certain kilometer that the road is ~1-2%, there were sudden 5% which are Not there in the real road)

I now wish to learn how to resolve this. “Using the Power factor” you suggest – will be Happy to learn what this is.
I don’t have this handlebar blue round remote control. Just the Ant+ Antenna (with cable).

Is there Street view available ?? I was told there is not..

Yes I saved some GPXs (from my real rides) and imported (one of) them by the TTS

What’s “package like 3D route builder” please ? can you please send a link to where I can get it ?

Thanks a lot !!

mcorn
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Location: USA, Bellingham, Washington

Re: Getting a new NEO today :) some Route questions please

Post by mcorn » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:19 pm

As you've discovered raw GPS files can have very sudden slope and altitude changes. For files you have created yourself, this is just a reflection of the variability in the capturing process and also anomalies and variability in how the altitude data is obtained.

In a raw state, many of these GPS files are completely unusable. There are a number of PC tools that can be used to smooth our GPS files. One of them was a program called "3D Route Builder" distributed by a company called Hybrid GeoTools. That company appears to be gone, but if you do a Google search on 3D Route Builder, you can find numerous places where it can be downloaded. Another online tool can be found here:

http://www.lunicus.org/tacx/GPXsmoother.htm

These are useful tools, but you have to spend a bit of time learning how to use them.

Power factor is setting per ride. Look at the TTS manual to find it. It basically reduces (or increases) all of the slopes in a ride by the percentage you set it at. It does make hilly rides easier, but does not work well for getting sudden slope changes out of a ride. If you set power factor to 10% it does reduce the impact of a sudden change, but it does not really solve the problem.

Many GPS files are available online for various courses. Many of these have been smoothed but many have not.

Portman
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:43 am

Re: Getting a new NEO today :) some Route questions please

Post by Portman » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:49 pm

Thanks mcorn!

Will look for the GPX smoothers

I am told that while recording a real ride, better to use an on-wheel speed meter (the Garmin have it on the wheel hub) and also to get data from more than one Satellite network.
P

mcorn
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Re: Getting a new NEO today :) some Route questions please

Post by mcorn » Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:52 pm

Portman wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:49 pm
Thanks mcorn!

Will look for the GPX smoothers

I am told that while recording a real ride, better to use an on-wheel speed meter (the Garmin have it on the wheel hub) and also to get data from more than one Satellite network.
P
Not sure how to control GPS satellite data. Wheel speed is not critical. Just smooth the courses once you have gotten them.

Portman
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:43 am

Re: Getting a new NEO today :) some Route questions please

Post by Portman » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:29 am

Ok Thanks.

thebigoneinfront
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Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: Ludwigshafen/Rhine, Germany

Re: Getting a new NEO today :) some Route questions please

Post by thebigoneinfront » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:23 am

Portman wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:49 pm
I am told that while recording a real ride, better to use an on-wheel speed meter (the Garmin have it on the wheel hub) and also to get data from more than one Satellite network
If you have a wheel speed sensor, the Garmins will use those data for displaying and recording speed. If you don‘t have a speed sensor, the Garmins will calculate speed from the GPS data. GPS data points come once per second and have an error margin of a few meters which is significant because on a bike, you move only a few meters more per second. So GPS-derived speed data can be a bit shaky and if you don‘t like that, a speed sensor is the way to resolve that. But this has no influence on GPS Rides on the Tacx.

With respect to the several satellite networks, I think this refers to using both the US‘s NAVSTAR network (often referred to as „GPS“, which actually is the more generic term) and Russia‘s GLONASS. Europe‘s Galileo and China‘s Beidou networks aren’t fully operational yet (check back in 2020). Present Garmins have the options to use only NAVSTAR (indeed called GPS there), or GLONASS as well. There is some debate whether the second option actually improves anything. I believe that may be the case in higher Northern latitudes, and there may be moments where your device sees too few NAVSTAR satellites to get a fix. As always, one needs one measurement per variable to calculate and for GPS, time is the basis, so for a full 3D fix, your device needs to receive signals from four satellites. If you have less than four Navstars at one time and location - all of these satellites move and may be shaded off from your device - , mixing Glonasses into that can re-establish proper fixes, but you need one extra Glonass to synchronise the time of both systems. Overall, depending on where and when you record data, using both systems can improve accuracy of the GPS data path, which in turn can improve your Tacx GPS ride. There had been some reported bugs in the Garmins, however, that were caused by using GLONASS, and it may affect battery life, so it‘s reasonable to try without it at first. For most, using GLONASS as well does not make or break the total experience.

Portman
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:43 am

Re: Getting a new NEO today :) some Route questions please

Post by Portman » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:37 am

Thanks thebigoneinfront.

Portman
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:43 am

Re: Getting a new NEO today :) some Route questions please

Post by Portman » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:39 am

Friends,

3D builder does not allow me to enable EDIT mode.

Any suggestion how to resolve this ?

** Actually the FREE version is worthless. does not work. Worth buying it? is it really doing the work?

Thanks!
Last edited by Portman on Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

thebigoneinfront
Posts: 2817
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: Ludwigshafen/Rhine, Germany

Re: Getting a new NEO today :) some Route questions please

Post by thebigoneinfront » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:44 am

I haven‘t used 3D Routebuilder for quite some time, don‘t even remember whether it worked last time. As mcorn wrote above, http://www.lunicus.org/tacx/GPXsmoother.htm is another good tool to smooth.

Portman
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:43 am

Re: Getting a new NEO today :) some Route questions please

Post by Portman » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:52 am

thebigoneinfront wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:44 am
I haven‘t used 3D Routebuilder for quite some time, don‘t even remember whether it worked last time. As mcorn wrote above, http://www.lunicus.org/tacx/GPXsmoother.htm is another good tool to smooth.
Thanks.

Portman
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:43 am

Re: Getting a new NEO today :) some Route questions please

Post by Portman » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:50 am

Using this suggest smoother, the new green graph looks WORSE than the original blue one.
The forum does not allow me to upload a screenshot

mcorn
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Re: Getting a new NEO today :) some Route questions please

Post by mcorn » Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:40 pm

Both programs work fine as I have used them. You don't need a paid version of 3D route builder, but have to use copy and paste to save. Need to do some practice and Internet searches to figure out these things.

Portman
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:43 am

Re: Getting a new NEO today :) some Route questions please

Post by Portman » Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:48 pm

Thanks mcorn.

Will try/read further.

Good weekend to all! :)

Portman
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:43 am

Re: Getting a new NEO today :) some Route questions please

Post by Portman » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:45 pm

Just exported the same ride from Strava and it doesn't look bad

why is the site not allowing to share (not large) photos ? :))

mcorn
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Re: Getting a new NEO today :) some Route questions please

Post by mcorn » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:05 pm

Portman wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:45 pm

why is the site not allowing to share (not large) photos ? :))
Many functions of this forum don't work at times. In addition to not being able to insert images, the search function is usually not working. I've complained numerous times, but as far as I can tell, the site administrator is mostly in phantom form.

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