Bike Hill Training

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Re: Bike Hill Training

Post by Tacx Video Production » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:05 pm

betski wrote:I want to improve on steep hills such as 20% gradient over 1/2km and 10% over 1 or 2 km.

My vortex trainer emulates 6% gradient. Which are the best catalyst or other tacx trainings to achieve this and how often do i need to ride these to reap the benefits? thx,
Steep hills in effect are just sections of road where your forced to ride at a very low cadence & high torque...you can simulate this on a trainer by simply using a very high gear on a virtual hill (say ideal would be using the Tour of Flanders Tacx Real life video which has a long stream of very steep hills). ...so when you see the grade get steeper then 7% go to a higher gear & force your cadence down......Or when you do steep hills in real life simply have low enough gears to ride at the lowest cadence you normally ride at on the trainer ;-)

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Re: Bike Hill Training

Post by betski » Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:41 am

I tried this with cap de formentor but perhaps i tried to push too much of a big gear as now i have a slight groin strain. :oops: Will try a higher cadence for shorter intervals and bring it down gradually. i can normally spin a 20% gradient on 34x25/28 for 10 mins no problem.

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Re: Bike Hill Training

Post by Tacx Video Production » Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:25 pm

betski wrote:I tried this with cap de formentor but perhaps i tried to push too much of a big gear as now i have a slight groin strain. :oops: Will try a higher cadence for shorter intervals and bring it down gradually. i can normally spin a 20% gradient on 34x25/28 for 10 mins no problem.
On a trainer the best you can do is simulate "being in the wrong gear" this is what most cyclists experience when on a steep hill, the other factors like balance & using your arm & back muscles are tough to replicate..

If you want to go faster up short hills then you need to focus on improving your engine capacity 1st & foremost ((longer 15min - 60min time trial efforts), losing weight if you have any to lose & then finally if you wanted to specialize on short hills I would add V02 max efforts (intervals of roughly 5minute durations or short RLV hills repeated)...

Then you only have the question of cadence, if its too low cycling starts to mimic weight training & you will need leg strength to turn a lot of torque...But by simply riding steep hills in a low enough gear you can avoid the need for a lot of strength which means you can spend more of your training time working on your general condition.

So the moral of this story is lose weight, train for LT 1st as this will make the biggest difference to the speed you can climb & the distance you can hammer. then with some V02 2nd & fit low enough gears that you never need to drop your cadence into the weight training zone!

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Re: Bike Hill Training

Post by betski » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:43 pm

thx for your input and advice. much appreciated :)

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Re: Bike Hill Training

Post by Tacx Video Production » Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:38 am

Which are the best catalyst or other tacx trainings to achieve this and how often do i need to ride these to reap the benefits?
Well the gospel as quoted this last week or two from the fountain of all cycling training knowledge Dr Andrew Coggan is 4 x week do a one hour time trial (the pace you can sustain without cracking for 1hr) & you will reap the highest gains in condition for the minimum amount of workload in the shortest time period. its almost spot on the same as how Chris Boardman trained for his 1st Olympic gold, 4 really hard Endurance taxing workouts a week, a 1hr flat out effort can = a 2-3hr effort at a slightly lower less mentally taxing pace. Then give the time to recover.

For me & at least one x UK national team coach the crazy workouts that low category riders pay for are really nothing other then smoke & mirrors generated by coaches to give you the illusion that cycling is really complicated....its not. If you want to be good then simply prepare your mind to do 4 hard time trial like efforts a week, spread these out so you have time enough to recover properly....what will happen is your engine will improve rapidly with the result that you will climb much faster, recover much faster as the time trial efforts require some fats you will find your endurance is vastly improved.... Your mind will become stronger also as its really hard to keep the focus for an hour...dont be tempted to fill the following days with other training until your conditon reaches the stage where you recover fully over night...do something easy or nothing, the key to improving is recovering properly.

Forget about training for a terrain type, you want to be a faster, fitter cyclist in general...If you improve on the Tacx you will be faster on all terrain..even if you do nothing but the 4 time trials. if you lose weight then you will climb even faster....when your fit or you plan to do competition then you think a little about specializing in that event,for example I raced Belgium Kermis races most of my racing life, I needed to include an element of top end speed to my endurance workouts but still the base of every 1st cat to Pro rider will be the engine building type training I talked about here...for 99% of the riders in this forum that ride cyclosportive events or the odd 3rd -4th cat race I would not waste time doing workouts that look like intervals & focus simply on TT type efforts & plenty of recovery time.

Keep it simple - recover well

PS Tacx RLV mountains make the perfect LT session :wink:

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Re: Bike Hill Training

Post by betski » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:33 pm

The info below is based on the Carmichael Training Systems, specifically for 10-15 mins climbs-

MONDAY-REST
TUESDAY-REST
WEDNESDAY-STEADY STATE 90 MINS. 20 mins endurance > 2x25 mins SS intervals (90rpm) with 5 mins rest > 20 mins endurance
THURSDAY -REST
FRIDAY-ENDURANCE 2 HOURS 85-95rpm
SATURDAY-CLIMBING REPEATS 60-90 MINS. 10 mins warm up > 4x10 mins (70-80rpm) with 5 min rest intervals > 10 mins reco
SUNDAY-POWER INTERVALS 60-90 MINS. 15 mins warm up > 6x2 mins with 2 min rest intervals > 15 mins reco

Training type definitions- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ivb ... TL8_JE/pub

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Re: Bike Hill Training

Post by Tacx Video Production » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:51 pm

I think this could perhaps be a perfect example of how coaches that are in it for the money make cycling complicated.... :wink:

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Re: Bike Hill Training

Post by Windflily   » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:42 pm

Thanks for the advices :D unblocked game
Last edited by Windflily   on Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bike Hill Training

Post by BatmanGat5 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:10 am

"Being in the wrong gear" when you were describing going uphill is the most accurate thing I've heard. I'll have to start using that!

Great write up, lots of info.

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